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To: defconw

“When I heard he was elected I was mortified to tell the truth.”

Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?


12 posted on 07/16/2014 5:28:13 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: ThomasMore
Of course it does. That does not mean a blind allegiance to every word he utters. It takes discernment and if necessary a bending of will, my will not his at least in areas of faith and morals. His politics, not so much

But some points to think about. 1. Maybe we have sucked so bad this century and the later half of the last, that the Holy Spirit is making a point? 2. I can be mortified and still be a Catholic. 3. Not all of our Popes have been stellar. 4. I can be wrong, it happens every now and again. :)

He's also not been as bad as I thought. he's not a total Marxist, but sometimes he's portrayed as such. In some ways, I do see what he's saying. When taken out of the context of politics I really have only a few problems with him. But in political philosophy I do have problems with him. But in fairness to him, these things are not being said in English for me to hear. I have to rely on an increasingly unreliable media who is also increasingly dishonest. I find myself wondering, did he say that? Or is this out of context or misspoken? Is whatever he said being twisted to fulfill some lefty dream? Not sure.

As I pointed out in my post above, does he say what he says as a literal matter or is he trying to provoke thought? I went to a wedding once where Father's first line of the homily was: Marriage is death! Pause! Now if you are Catholic it's didn't blow your mind or at least it shouldn't. But to the non-Catholics it may have seemed a strange way to start a wedding.

14 posted on 07/16/2014 5:52:01 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
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To: ThomasMore
Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?

Only if the electors are open to the Holy Spirit. I don't believe the majority of Cardinals today are open to anything but church politics.

32 posted on 07/16/2014 8:26:01 AM PDT by pgkdan (ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF THE ANTICHRIST!)
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To: ThomasMore
Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?

It appears that either the Holy Spirit has suspended His guidance or the bishops refuse to listen (or maybe the Holy Spirit has suspended because He knows the bishops would not listen).

In any event it does not mean the end of the Church or that the 'gates of hell' have prevailed against the Church. Just means that the End Times are here, and each of us as Catholics should stick to what we were taught in our youth, if we are over 55 or so. If under 55, seek out old teachings and liturgy.

The True Church will prevail in the end even if it is sustained by only a small number of faithful Catholic laity and clergy.

"In 1960 it will become clearer".

54 posted on 07/16/2014 12:43:17 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: ThomasMore; defconw
Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?

Do you mean what God allows man to do in His omniscience, or even ordains them as in the case of Judas, but in which one still chooses to do so (mystery) and works out for God, or that the decisions of men to elect grossly immoral men are led by the Spirit in obeying the Word of God, and are infallible?

And which thus are a necessary attribute of the one true church?

And while we are at it, what is your basis for your full assurance that Rome is the one true church (the weight of evidence, Scripture, etc.)?

152 posted on 07/17/2014 11:45:51 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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