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To: chesley
Such beliefs as Everyone *ever and always* has been saved by grace through faith, imputed as righteousness... to include every soul since the world began. are not in the belief system of any born-again Christian that I ever met, read, or read about. It sounds more like Universalism to me.

I see what you are getting at. Let me retract and reiterate:

Everyone *ever and always* who has been saved, has been saved by grace through faith, imputed as righteousness... to include every soul since the world began.

The point I was making is that no one, even from the very beginning, has been saved by anything other than the blood of Yeshua. The atonement system prior to Yeshua was temporary, as the Torah declares, waiting for a better blood than that of sheep and goats. The cross is like a pebble droped in a lake, echoing back through history as much as forward - So the purpose of Torah has never been about justification/salvation. That is not it's job.

I am not a universalist, albeit that I hope that the blood of Yeshua is far more powerful than we can imagine... After all, every knee will bow, and every tongue confess... But, as we have it now, I cannot endorse universalism at all.

So, if you don't mind sharing, could you mention the name of the religious organization (denomination?) where you worship. Also, if you don't mind, how you came to be "born-again"?

My classic education was Christian Reformed/Dutch Reformed, and my technical membership is Presbyterian OPC, though I am not much of a Calvinist anymore. Worship wise, I am going to a non-denom praise oriented Evangelical church, but study-wise I fit better with Hebrew Roots Christians and Messianic Jews.

My conversion was really rather uneventful - not any great story in that - That particular time, I got pulled hard into the Bible in my mid 20's, with an intensity that caused me to fast and drop everything else... I was convicted while reading in John, and the Spirit fell upon me soon thereafter. That isn't perfectly right, as I had felt stirrings of the Spirit in my youth... but that particular occasion is where it took.

44 posted on 01/08/2014 12:28:57 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Thank you for the clarification.

I can agree with that, although I find the OT ceremonial law to be unnecessary.

We’ll find out one day.


45 posted on 01/08/2014 12:49:47 PM PST by chesley
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