Posted on 12/12/2013 4:07:04 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
Once the Spirit has left the building, there is nothing left to do but call the realtors.
My thoughts exactly.
I agree. Liberal Anglicans would be better off being Catholic.
The declaration at Lambeth is contentless. They never answered the question: WHAT moral considerations could make continence immoral?
Ultimately, of course, married couples were being told: Do the right thing, unless you find it difficult or unpleasant.
Tolkien best summarized Anglicanism: “a pathetic and shadowy medley of half-remembered traditions and mutilated beliefs.”
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>> I agree. Liberal Anglicans would be better off being Catholic.
What in your mind justifies Catholicism being a better spiritual venue for pro-homosexual Anglicans?
“So, if openness to life is not required in marriage (which the acceptance of contraception would seem to indicate), then why are same-sex couples in the ECUSA mandated to practice sexual abstinence? And if it is required, then why are contraception and homosexual relationships now endorsed?”
Excellent point. But sin is incompatible with true logic and reasoning.
If Roman Catholicism is being presented as "God's true church" and superior to any other denomination of Christianity based on this one area, then shouldn't this church actually demonstrate that moral superiority better? Without even dwelling on the abysmal child sexual abuses of the past BY clergy and the cover-ups, stonewalling and perjury by the hierarchy, explain how the "contraception" rules are intrinsically different when the "rhythm method" and "natural family planning" are recommended for married couples to avoid conception? The result is basically the same whether a couple uses NFP or a condom. All the Catholic Church is doing is piously asserting "their" way is the only way God's church should act in the area of what a husband and wife do in the planning of their families between themselves and God. It sounds more than a little hypocritical to me.
I sincerely HOPE nobody decides to join the Catholic Church solely on the basis of this issue.
For starters, the CAtholics aren't pro-homosexual.
If Roman Catholicism is being presented as "God's true church" and superior to any other denomination of Christianity based on this one area, then shouldn't this church actually demonstrate that moral superiority better? Without even dwelling on the abysmal child sexual abuses of the past BY clergy and the cover-ups, stonewalling and perjury by the hierarchy, explain how the "contraception" rules are intrinsically different when the "rhythm method" and "natural family planning" are recommended for married couples to avoid conception? The result is basically the same whether a couple uses NFP or a condom. All the Catholic Church is doing is piously asserting "their" way is the only way God's church should act in the area of what a husband and wife do in the planning of their families between themselves and God. It sounds more than a little hypocritical to me.You are a "member" of the "True Church", yes?
I'm not a Roman Catholic, but here would be a few answers to boatbums question:
First, placing a physical (or drug) barrier rather than a self-control barrier smacks of the philosophy that we, instead of God, are the arbiters of our own fates, of who gets born and who dies. In fact, it says "we INSIST that we are in control of life and death."
Second, use of the physical barrier more likely leads to turning a blind eye to one's children's use of same when they become of a sexually active age.
Third, rejecting a well-intentioned church teaching in one area could lead to a life of looking for exceptions in other (all?) areas of church teaching. The straight-forward purpose of the contraception mandate is to honor God as being sovereign in all affairs.
I agree, well said Padre.
This subject always seems WEIRD to me. Does anyone actually think God is knitting His brow over contraception questions, when we cannot even get “THE GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD” correct? Really. Here we are, called to be ambassadors for Christ, preaching the reconciliation God desires for man, through the finished work of His Son, and yet, contraception is the highest note we can reach for Him.
If you have a chance to honor God in one area, then why wouldn’t you?
However, the issue of man determining he is sovereign over life and death is a huge issue, so “condoms” are a slippery slope to euthanasia....murder to promote social convenience.
Actually that’s very easy to understand. Catholics must obfuscate to the peripherals of Catholic teaching that cannot be substantiated in scripture because they cannot stand on scripture alone. Satan always attempts to deflect from what scripture says. As Jesus pointed out, Satan is always trumped by what scripture actually says. It’s why Jesus so often said “it is written”. Catholics must get off of “it is written” or they will be thwarted like Satan was.
THAT makes sense. I’ve not seen so many “experts “ on contraception than here. Ask about a condom and the reply is swift and without doubt. Ask about the gospel of your salvation, and well..
"Well intentioned church teaching" ≠ Scripture. There's no point in following church teachings if they do not line up with the Word of God. It does not impress God or earn brownie points with Him.
Considering the rate of contraceptive failure, I hardly think that God is not sovereign in conception. If God so chooses that a certain person exist, that person will despite the efforts of parents to prevent pregnancy. And there's no fool proof contraceptive.
There's danger in mandating what God is silent on in Scripture. It smacks of legalism and is how cults are born.
We all make decisions based on the revelation that we do have, Metmom. To say that nothing can counteract or stump the power of God is a true saying. That fact, however, has not prevented any number of creatures from nonetheless trying to do so. Did Satan’s rebellion triumph over God? No it has not as will be seen in the will have not.
So, because Satan cannot counteract God’s purpose and power, does that mean Satan hasn’t really done bad? No. He has done evil, and that sin will be punished eventually in the lake of fire.
With us is there anyone God has decreed to be born who will remain unborn? Never. God’s sovereignty overcomes all.
Is the intention to change the status of those who are to exist to the status of those who will not exist a sinful thought? I think it is. I think it is an assumption of sovereignty in the same way that thought of murder is an assumption of sovereignty. (BTW, every pro-life argument supports this viewpoint. The pre-born are living creations of God.)
What about the pre-conceived? Are they real?
Well, only if there is evidence that the “yet to be conceived” have ever been predicted and the prediction come true. The Messiah Jesus, John the Baptist, and Cyrus come quickly to mind.
Therefore, the intention of the heart to do away with the yet to be conceived is a sin of the heart akin to the taking of a life.
Far better to err on the side of life.
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