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To: redleghunter

I’m finding that I’m having some issues with what John MacArthur is saying. I’ve never paid much attention to him but have had a couple of encounters with his speeches lately that bother me. When I got to the part where he says “if you are really saved there will be righteousness, there will be holiness,” the red flags went up and they didn’t go back down as I read the rest of the transcript. Sure there will be a changed life and as the new Christian grows there will be more but his focus on what WE are to do is somewhat troubling. It’s Christ’s righteousness and holiness that show through. The whole thing reminded me of the Catholic approach to man doing the work. I see many who “do good works” and rely on those “good works” as their entry into salvation.


6 posted on 11/21/2013 2:00:54 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear

He’s setting up standards for behavior that no one can meet.

I liked him a lot at one time. But I’ve noticed over the years that he’s become very severe and harsh in his approach.

We don’t all come to Christ broken to the depths of our soul over our sinfulness. I don’t think you really reach that point right away. The unsaved person does not have that kind of spiritual sensitivity. That comes later, IMO.

The point is not how perfect we are but that we are being conformed to the image of Christ.

Even Lot was called *righteous Lot* in 2 Peter, hardly a term I’s use to describe Lot. Not to mention David and his adultery and murder. What? Was he not saved? And yet God calls him *a man after my own heart*.


7 posted on 11/21/2013 2:53:07 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: CynicalBear

I believe his previous sermon series before this one was on “dead faith” and Jame’s epistle. I think JM saw what happened with televangelism and easy believism and is being reactionary in these sermons. I read an interview transcript on what motivated his book on this sermon. It was having close friends through Christian schools and seminary who went on to deny Christ or live in sin without remorse. I am in the middle of “The Gospel According to Jesus Christ” and he makes the point, as he does in this sermon, the compass heading should have done a 180 when we were saved.

I think his point is the examination. Some kids who grow up in Bible believing Christian churches and make that altar call, are baptized go off to school and then they either move on to be faithful Christians showing the fruits, or you never hear from them or when you do it is not a good report. I did not get the impression he is saying those are not saved, he is just saying if someone repents and has saving faith you will see a change no matter how small and that person will hate the sin that used to enslave them.

I did not get at all that JM is promoting a faith+works salvation. The boldest point I think he made is, well there is a litmus test for us and not others to judge us.

Thus, the title of examining ourselves.

I am reminded of a “Way of the Master” Ray Comfort video where he encountered a man who was clearly a crossdresser and transvestite. When asked if the ‘man’ was saved, the man said “yes I made an altar call many years ago and am living the life God wants me to live.” Of course Ray pointed out to the man the same points JM did in this sermon. I think with all the debates on this forum about works based salvation, we never get to the meat of “if you love Me you will obey Me.” If we say that here (as I just did:)) the responses would be “see works are necessary for salvation.” Well John Mac is not saying that. He is saying what the Bible says. If we are a new creature we will act like one. We won’t be perfect, but those things that kept us from Christ will no longer command us. And it is with this changed heart we love to obey.


8 posted on 11/21/2013 3:10:17 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: CynicalBear; redleghunter; metmom
I'm having the same problem with this, CB.

"Being confident of this very thing, that HE which hath BEGUN a good work in you will PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6).

It is the Holy Spirit who is in us who has begun the good work in us. And HE will continue to do so until Christ comes for us.

We now have peace with GOd through the finished work of Christ. (Rom. 5:1-11).

We now have the ministry of reconciliation, that God has given believers (2 Cor. 5:14-21). Ours is a life of a new creature, saved and commissioned to preach that commission to the lost. Not to be focused on ourselves, but Christ. And the Holy Spirit as He leads, directs, and perfects our life for the glory of God.

10 posted on 11/21/2013 3:50:29 PM PST by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: CynicalBear; redleghunter
The whole thing reminded me of the Catholic approach to man doing the work. I see many who “do good works” and rely on those “good works” as their entry into salvation.

Let me be very emphatic in saying we are saved by grace, NOT WORKS OF ANY MAN, including mine, or yours. It is by Christ's righteousness we are saved, not mans.

Now, I am an old man, and I have walked with the Lord many years and miles, and I see myself shorting the Lord in the statement. The Word says we are saved by grace through faith, and not of ourselves least any man should boast, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no man can boast.

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. Romans 5:1-2

Note carefully, we have access to His grace by faith. Faith is the door into His grace. So the big question revolves around the word faith. What is it? Faith is primarily a verb. Faith is an action, or a readiness to act, based on confidence one has in the object of his belief. Consider the ramifications of that statement carefully.

345 posted on 11/27/2013 6:48:26 AM PST by GarySpFc (We are saved by the precious blood of the God-man.)
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