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To: James R. Aist

“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.” _Shakespeare (Merchant of Venice)

My views (quoting scripture, but in the hope that God’s words will speak for themselves, rather than for my own ends):

- Genesis 19:5: “And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.”
If this passage stood alone, one could be convinced (as liberals argue) that the sin of Sodom was homosexual rape, not homosexuality.

- Leviticus 18:22: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
This passage has no reasonable ambiguity, whether in translation (check the Hebrew), in scriptural context (this condemnation is between general condemnations of child sacrifice and of sex with animals, not in some specific setting that narrows the applicability), or in historical context. This has nothing to do with rape or with prostitution. This is about gay men acting on homosexual urges, but it says nothing about celibate men with homosexual orientation or about lesbians. This passage’s position on male homosexuals acting on that urge is absolute. It’s not saying they are wrong to be attracted to men, just that they are wrong to act on that desire.

- Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
[Same comments as Leviticus 18.]

- Deuteronomy 23:17: “ There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”
If you accept the liberal interpretation of Genesis 19:5, this can be dismissed.

-Judges 19:22: “Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.”
- 1 Kings 14:24: “And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.”
- 1 Kings 15:12: “And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”
- 1 Kings 22:46: “And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”
- 2 Kings 23:7: “And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.” [Same comments as Deuteronomy 23:17.]

- Romans 1:26-27: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
As with Leviticus 18:22, this is a clear and unambiguous condemnation of homosexual actions. This broadens the Leviticus position to a condemnation of lesbian acts as well. Some liberals argue that Romans 1 only condemns homosexual sex among those who are not attracted to the same sex (for them, homosexual actions are “against nature”), but that is clear nonsense. Reading this in Greek, the meaning is unambiguous and could not have been confused by cultural differences.

- 1 Corinthians 6:9: “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.”
Liberals who argue that this does not apply to homosexuals may actually be correct, but I am uncertain. This is one of the rare times when the subtleties of the words really do introduce (at least to my mind) the ambiguity that the leftists claim. They are obviously wrong on what scripture as a whole says, but I would not go to this passage to support that position.

- 1 Timothy 1:9-10: “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
As with 1 Corinthians 6:9, this is not the passage I would go to to argue that the Bible condemns homosexual actions. I think it’s clear, but the reading is more difficult than many of the others, without being quite as ambiguous as 1 Corinthians 6:9.


17 posted on 09/24/2013 4:16:06 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Pollster1
They typically argue that Lev 18 and related texts and Rm 1 only condemn homosex as part of idolatry due to the cultural contrast these occur in. However, this is also the case with the 10 commandments as well as the giving of much moral legislation or exhortation elsewhere. Thus the effect of the prohomosexual hermeneutic is to allow the negation of most any moral command.
28 posted on 09/24/2013 6:43:26 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Pollster1

Perhaps you would not be confused by the questioned passages if you would read them in modern English translations...any of them. I find it necessary to continually translate the KJV into modern English in order to understand it’s meaning. Or, you could study it out using the KJV and a Strong’s Concordance keyed to it. Then you would not find these passages confusing anymore. At least that’s what I found.


39 posted on 09/25/2013 6:47:01 AM PDT by James R. Aist
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