Skip to comments.The Biblical Jesus Christ
Posted on 07/26/2013 1:27:27 PM PDT by F15Eagle
Who is Jesus? Is He just a man? Is He just a Great Teacher? Is He just a Great Prophet, another in several sent by God over the centuries? The Biblical answer to these questions is found below.
Some may believe that only the narrow-minded would not be ready to accept a universal Jesus; One popular with and accepted by all non-Christian religions. However this is not what the Bible teaches. True Belief in Christ allows room for none other. Let's look at the Scriptures and find out what the Biblical portrait of Jesus is. We learn Who Jesus is, not by the opinions of men, but by the Holy Word of God, the Holy Bible.
Eternal Ruler of the Universe - Matthew 28:18-20 (NASB)
In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus makes it very plain that He now rules the Earth and the entire Universe. This is no prophet, this is no teacher, this is no ordinary man; this is the True Eternal Ruler of the Universe, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Here He initiates the Great Commission and promises His perpetual presence to all Christians:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in Heaven and on Earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the End of the Age."
Much More Than a Prophet - Matthew 16:13-17 (KJV)
Jesus kept His true identity shrouded in mystery to those who did not want to believe and sought only to trap Him. However, He wanted to make sure His disciples clearly understood Who He really was. Peter's insightful statement of Faith was by the Grace of God, not by human reasoning:
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?" 14 And they said, "Some say that Thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias (Elijah); and others, Jeremias (Jeremiah), or one of the prophets." 15 He saith unto them, "But Whom say ye that I am?" 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona (Peter): for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in Heaven."
Foretold by the Prophets - Isaiah 53:3-7 (NASB)
God sent several prophets to the Nation of Israel. All foretold of His Redemption in Christ Jesus:
3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like One from Whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a Lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a Sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
Denial of His Deity = Unbelief - Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
The Deity of the Godhead was revealed to the world in Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul's letter to the Church at Colossae makes this important statement succinctly:
9 For in Him [Jesus] all the Fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form (pronouns in brackets mine) ...
Denial of His Messianic Purpose = Unbelief - 1st John 2:20-23 (NASB)
Though this need not be a permanent state of being, the Apostle John teaches that anyone denying that Jesus is the Messiah of God, is of the spirit of the Antichrist. Since the Antichrist is the first one thrown into the Eternal Lake of Fire at the climax of the Battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:19-20), this is not good company to keep. An unbeliever may become a believer, but only after acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God. John writes the Truth to those who have already received it:
20 But you have an Anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the Truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the Truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Denial of His Incarnation = False Teaching - 2nd John 7 (NASB)
The false prophet and the false teacher are easy to recognize. The Disciple John admonishes the Christian to know the false prophets from the true disciples of Christ. The litmus test is foolproof:
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the Deceiver and the Antichrist.
King of All Creation - Colossians 1:15-16 (NASB)
Jesus is not an angel, He is not an alien, He is not a philosopher, and He is not a prophet. He is as much God as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Everything in the universe that can be seen with the human eye right down to subatomic particles are all a result of His creative powers and purpose:
15 ... He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God [the Father], the First-Born of all creation. 16 For by Him [Jesus] all things were created, both in the Heavens and on Earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created by Him [Jesus] and for Him [Jesus] (pronouns in brackets mine).
The Only Path to Salvation - John 14:6 (NASB)
This is where the Real Savior is differentiated from the deceivers. No matter what their teachings, no matter what their works, no matter what their historical accomplishments, there is only One Messiah from God and His Name is Jesus Christ:
6 Jesus said to him, "I am The Way, and The Truth, and The Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
The Free Savior of Humanity - John 3:17-18 (NASB)
Jesus offers Free Salvation to those who believe in Him. Those who do not believe in Jesus are not Saved and are subject to the Judgment of God. However, by simply receiving Christ as Savior, an unbeliever may cross over into Eternal Life in Christ. Instantaneous Salvation is Free for the asking:
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be Saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the Only Begotten Son of God.
Believe Him and Receive Him - Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
No church owns Salvation and no priest nor preacher owns Salvation. Salvation is a personal matter between each individual person and God, but only available through His Chosen Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth:
8 ... THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart -- that is, the Word of Faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be Saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in Salvation.
Confession of Jesus is Mandatory - Matthew 10:32-33 (NASB)
Christians aren't "Jesus Freaks" just for fun. Those that have been born-again are required by Christ Himself to proclaim Him as Lord and Savior. These instructions came from Christ Himself:
32 Everyone therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father Who is in Heaven. 33 But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father Who is in Heaven.
Confessed Son of God - John 10:36-37 (KJV)
Jesus definitely claimed to be the Son of God. And so it is written in the Holy Scripture:
36 Say ye of Him [Jesus], Whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I [Jesus] said, 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I [Jesus] do not the works of My Father, believe Me not.
Confessed Messiah of God - John 4:25-26 (NASB)
The Samaritan woman at the well acknowledged Messiah was coming. To her surprise, He had already arrived:
25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He Who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us." 26 Jesus said to her, "I Who speak to you AM He"
Eternal Messiah of God - John 1:1-5 (NASB)
During His conversation with the Samaritan woman Jesus said "I ... AM". "He" is "italicized" in the King James Bible because the pronoun "He" is not found in the Greek texts. "He" was added by the King James Bible scholars when they rendered the Greek verse into English. Jesus' statement of "I AM" is a manifestation of His Deity paralleling God's statement to Moses in Exodus 3:14. The Apostle John reaffirms the Deity of Jesus Christ, His perpetual existence, His creative powers and His Earthly Incarnation:
1 IN the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word [Jesus] was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God. 2 He [Jesus] was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him [Jesus], and apart from Him [Jesus] nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him [Jesus] was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light [Jesus] shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it (pronouns in brackets mine).
Purposeful Messiah of God - 1st John 3:8 (KJV)
Christ came to Earth to redeem "whosoever will" from all of us who have followed after Satan's rebellion:
8 ... For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the Devil.
Complete Messiah of God - 1st Timothy 3:16 (NASB)
The Apostle Paul makes a long story short. Here is Paul's brief assessment of Jesus' Earthly ministry:
16 By common confession, great is the Mystery of Godliness: He who was Revealed in the Flesh, Was Vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by Angels, Proclaimed among the Nations, Believed on in the World, Taken up in Glory.
Free Messiah of God - Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
The Salvation Christ offers is not because of our good works, but the Kindness of God reaching down:
8 For by Grace are ye Saved through Faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the Gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Humble Messiah of God - Matthew 11:27-30 (KJV)
True Knowledge of God comes only through His Son Jesus. The unpretentious Messiah beckons:
27 All things are delivered unto Me of My Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. 28 Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.
Healing Messiah of God - Matthew 8:16-17 (NASB)
The healing power of the Messiah was foretold in Isaiah 53:4. He simply spoke the Word and all were healed:
16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a Word, and healed all who were ill. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: "HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES.''
Unchanging Messiah of God - Hebrews 13:8 (NKJV)
Resurrected the Third Day after His Crucifixion, the Messiah of God changes not, throughout eternity:
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Betrayed Messiah of God - Matthew 20:18 (KJV)
Jesus Christ prophesied of His betrayal by Judas Iscariot, the unjust courts of the Pharisees, Herod and Pontius Pilate and His Crucifixion:
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death,
Sacrificed Messiah of God - 2nd Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
The Holy God the Father laid His wrath upon His Son Jesus Christ, Who took our sin bill. He paid a bill He did not owe, for we owed a debt we could not pay:
21 For He [God the Father] hath made Him [Jesus] to be sin for us, Who [Jesus] knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God [the Father] in Him [Jesus] (pronouns in brackets mine).
Sanctifying Messiah of God - 1st John 2:1-2 (NIV)
Though Christians fail from time to time, the Sanctifying Blood of Jesus keeps them righteous with God. This is not a license to sin, but demonstrates the 100% atoning payment made by Christ at Calvary. Jesus paid the sin bill for "whosoever will" throughout all eternity. One need only accept God's Free Gift:
1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have One Who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the Atoning Sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Witnessed Messiah of God - Matthew 27:54 (KJV)
A Roman Centurion soldier and many people in the city of Jerusalem were first-hand witnesses to the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ:
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, 'Truly this was the Son of God'.
Resurrected Messiah of God - 1st Corinthians 15:3-8 (NASB)
500+ people testified to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus first appeared to the Apostle Peter, then all 12 of His Disciples and then to over 500 people at one time. Lastly He appeared to Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus road. Saul became the Apostle Paul who wrote 13 of the 27 New Testament books:
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve (Disciples). 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the Apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
Resurrecting Messiah of God - Matthew 27:50-53 (KJV)
Completing His Crucifixion, Jesus Christ cried out as He died. At that moment, the God of Israel tore the veil, at the entrance to the Holy of Holies, into two pieces. This innermost chamber of the Second Temple to God was where Israel's high priest entered once per year to offer sacrifices of blood for the sins of the nation of Israel. Jesus as the Great High Priest, by His Sacrifice, literally offered His blood as a Permanent Sacrifice for all sin. There is no other sacrifice for sin possible and there need not be. It is finished.
At the same moment, there was a great earthquake and rocks were split asunder. Graves also opened and those who were physically dead were made physically alive again by Christ, Who has conquered Death. Those who were brought back to life walked into the Holy City of Jerusalem and showed themselves to others:
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the Veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the Earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the Saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after His Resurrection, and went into the Holy City, and appeared unto many.
Great High Priest Messiah of God - Hebrews 4:14 (KJV)
Have faith, for our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ, has redeemed us from our sins, and now, until His Second Coming, sits at the right hand of God the Father in Heaven:
14 Seeing then that we have a Great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Anointed Messiah of God - Hebrews 9:24-26, 28 (NIV)
The Jewish High Priest entered the Temple of God each year to atone for the sins of the people. This was but a foreshadowing of the True High Priest of God, Jesus Christ. The Jewish High Priest performed sacrifices each year; Jesus only had to do it once. His atoning work has been completed:
24 For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the True One; He entered Heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did He enter Heaven to offer Himself again and again, the way the High Priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the End of the Ages to do away with sin by the Sacrifice of Himself. 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring Salvation to those who are waiting for Him.
Appointed Messiah of God - Philippians 2:9-11 (NIV)
The Eternal Reign and Rule of Christ is described in Paul's Epistle to the Philippians. The King of the Universe shares His throne with no other "religious" leader. His Divine Appointment is of God the Father:
9 Therefore God exalted Him to the Highest Place and gave Him the Name that is above every name, 10 that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in Heaven and on Earth and under the Earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Returning Messiah of God - Revelation 19:10-16 (NASB)
Despite the doubts of many, one Day, unknown to man, Jesus is returning to Earth to Reign as King forever and forever. Many disregard the study of Bible Prophecy, yet Revelation 19:10 demonstrates that Bible Prophecy and the testimony of Christ are inseparable. This is a future event foretold:
10 ... worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. 11 And I saw Heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a Name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in Heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a Rod of Iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Second Coming Preceded by Imposters - Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 23, 26-27, 30 (NASB)
Just prior to Jesus' Second Coming, the Earth will experience counterfeit "Christs" and False Prophets. At the end of the Tribulation Period, His Second Coming will be seen by all on the Earth:
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, See to it that no one misleads you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 26 So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the East and flashes even to the West, so will the Coming of the Son of Man be. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the Earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Counterfeited Messiah of God - 2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4, 8 (KJV)
The Second Coming of Jesus Christ, at the apex of the period known as the Day of the Lord, will not occur until the Antichrist has manifested as a False Messiah:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that Day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the Brightness of His Coming:
Conquering Messiah of God - Revelation 19:19-20 (KJV)
When Jesus Christ Returns at His Second Coming, he conquers the Antichrist's world armies. The Antichrist and the False Prophet are seized:
19 And I saw the Beast, and the kings of the Earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army. 20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the False Prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the Mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And sure as God made little green apples, someone will click on the thread to pretend to be victimized by reading the thread they clicked on, so flame away, whomever that may be.
For others and lurkers who don't know much about the Bible, enjoy.
Apologize if pinged in error
Ping to watch!
“Ping to watch!”
LOL, you know it’s coming. Brings them out of the woodwork.
Not really (much to the chagrin of uber-liberals out in certain areas, lol)
Why would that happen?
This is not original with me, and it’s a paraphrase of the original sage remark, but I agree with the thrust of it 100%.
There’s no middle ground. If Jesus isn’t 100% who He claimed to be, then He’s either a liar, charlatan and a fraud. Or He’s a nutcase on a par with someone who thinks they are a poached egg. But He is NOT a good man or a great teacher. He did not leave us that opening.
If He isn’t the Lord of Glory, Second Person of the Trinity, God-the Son, Creator and Sustainer of all that exists in the material world; then he’s a very bad person and not deserving of even any half-hearted semi-acceptance by anyone.
Receive Him as your Savior and Lord; or reject Him as an impostor; but be prepared to accept the consequences of a wrong decision.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is nothing free about the Salvation that Christ has to offer. There was a price and it has been paid. The Savior paid an awful price. He suffered already for our sins. He was punished for what I have done. His punishment was so horrible He asked His Father if it could be taken away, but alas it could not and He agreed to do His Fathers will.
We don't get the grace that He offers for free any more than He got the right to offer it for free. We have to take a contrite heart to The Lord and offer it to Him. We have to let Him have it and do with it what He will. We have to offer up our own sins, give them away if you will as a condition of His saving grace.
Many friends tell me they have been saved and they don't worry about the sins they commit because they have been saved. The concept of once saved always saved is a lie. If you give your heart to The Lord and then sin it is the same as taking back the gift you gave to Him. It gets much harder to give that gift the second time. I'm not saying you can't be redeemed after falling away but I am saying that if you fall away you never really gave your all your heart, you only gave a part of it.
The price of Salvation was and is very high. There are those that would deceive you into thinking it is easy, it is not.
He was an unfortunate victim of my profile page -— it’s happened several times.
It is a free gift from God the the believer.
You can’t pay for it; you can’t earn it.
Yes, Jesus paid the ultimate price.
I don’t think we’re in disgreement, per se.
Great profile of who Jesus is.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:25-30 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.
Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdenednot that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Excellent references, of course.
Doesn't sound like "once saved, always saved" to me.
Immanuel - God with us
OSAS is not supported by scripture. There is nothing Biblical about it.
Yes, good one and also 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God, The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
Who was that?
He is who He claimed to be, as was proven by his resurrection. The truth of Jesus is the most plausible explanation of the following facts
1) His burial by Joseph of Arimathea
2) His empty tomb found by His female followers
3) His postmortem appearances
4) The disciples belief in his resurrection despite having every predisposition not to
He was not a liar. He was vindicated by God, and Israel was torn asunder, wiped away for the longest time until just recently. Israel’s return heralds Christ’s return. He is on His way.
Read the story above it--but I'm sure you're familiar with it.
It still shows that, but he can still post- NSA thingy:)
I just realized that my post #23 may sound pretty snarky. I apologize for that—it was not meant to be.
Not a problem.
Salvation is a gift. Since we don’t work to earn it, we can’t lose it through works.
I believe that the genuine believer cannot lose their salvation.
I think the thing that gives us the trouble is those who appear to have been saved who later turn their backs.
Think the parable of the sower and the soil.
And considering the lengths God wen to and goes to to bring us to salvation, I think that He’s looking for excuses to save people instead of looking for excuses to damn them. So it’s not so much a matter of *Oh you slipped up. Too bad for you . zzzooottt!!!!*, but like any loving parent, wants to have that right relationship with us.
And so I think that for the true believer, God seals us to protect us, as Scripture clearly says. If we are crucified with Christ, which we are, we have already died in God’s sight and the righteousness of Christ is credited to our account.
Maranatha, Lord Jesus.
Thanks so much for the ping!
However, the Prodigal Son makes it pretty clear that we can fall away of our own accord. The younger son was definitely a member of the family. He was a son. And he was definitely described as being dead--by the Father.
Given those two items, told by Jesus Himself, I gotta believe that, while no outside entity can take away our salvation, we can make the decision to walk away from it.
John 16:1 says that Jesus told them about the coming persecution so that they will not fall away. These were the Apostles He was talking to. If He was concerned that even they could fall away, then I think it is very possible.
In Hebrews 10, Paul is encouraging his audience. In verses 35 and 36 he tells us to persevere so that we will not lose what God has promised.
Revelation 2:13 commends the church for not renouncing their faith. A commendation does not come unless the renouncing was possible.
And finally--Hebrews 6:4-6 :
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.I don't know how much clearer I can be.
You said “The concept of once saved always saved is a lie.”
I challenge you to show me, biblically, scripturally, that this is so.
To help, there are a few questions.
1) What did you do to get or earn or obtain your salvation? What works are possible to obtain it?
2) IF there are NO works, deeds, living standard that can obtain salvation for you, then what exactly can you do to keep it if it is not permanant?
3) IF what you say is true, then Jesus’ blood, His ssacrifice is completely insufficient to get you to heaven, He needs YOUR help to get you there.
4) IF what you say is true, then Jesus has you playing salvation-roulette. Did you repent of yesterdays sin before that cinder block took half your head off today?
5) IF what you say is true, then the scriptures need revised:
God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life - IF you can keep it.
Well, good luck keeping something you could never earn nor obtain by yourself. I prefer to believe that Jesus’ sacrifice has me paid up in full.
And just to head you off at the pass, no, that does not write me a blank check to sin as I might. It means I understand all He did and wish to walk with Him as I should. I would not sully Him by trying to keep my place with Him, my salvation. by my own efforts. It is His most precious gift to me.
But he was still a son.
Even his walking away didn’t break that relationship. It cost him dearly, he lost everything he should have inherited, but he was still a son.
Likewise, I do see how people can read certain verses and get the idea that one can lose their salvation, but once I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live but Christ lives in me, and the flesh is dead because of sin, and the spirit is alive because of righteousness, and it is God who works in me to will and to do according to HIS good pleasure, then I don’t see how that salvation can be lost.
Positionally, I am already seated in the heavenly places. I was transferred into the kingdom of God’s Son. It’s a done deal in the spiritual realm.
Where did I say that I earned my salvation?
OK. At this point you are no longer disagreeing with me, but with Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16
Incorporate the Hebrews 6:4-6 passage into your doctrine, and you will be better off.
Saturday ping to many I missed while in a hurry.
As always, I apologize if I pinged anyone in error.
And a ping to a few more.
Again, my sincere apologies if not interested. I used to have a couple of lists, but I’ve had to rebuild many.
A ping in case you missed it — since you understand the Signs of the Times
To walk in the grace of Jesus Christ and be immersed in God’s word is the only true path. Placing our faith in anything else only separates us from Him.
It is tragic that so many refuse to see that truth (His) is absolute, all or nothing, and beautifully simplistic. What an amazing gift we were given.
Thanks for the reminder!
Oh, and a ping to you, too
Look closely at his personal page...it’s F15’s funny little joke! He’s not banned!
I’ll remain in stand off and monitor position and swoop in as appropriate! Amen to what the poster posted!
Amen! There IS no middle ground. Scores of people died horrible deaths because they would not recant their faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ. He is either who he claims exactly to be or he was a fraud. Nothing but 100%!
“However, the Prodigal Son makes it pretty clear that we can fall away of our own accord.”
A poor reading that even ignores the parable that comes right before it, which depicts the Shepard as actively seeking a “lost sheep,” and, once finding it, places the sheep safely on His shoulders. Whereas the next parable only depicts a father who waits, and does not actively search, until he sees the son afar off already returning. Does God wait, or does He seek? There is also no sacrifice to atone for sin, nor any parallels with any of the other doctrines of Christianity. Thus we cannot conclude, as you seem to, that this one parable is meant to be a letter for letter depiction of Christianity. Rather, the design is limited simply to show, in the first part, the eagerness of God to forgive those who come to Him; and in the second part, the wickedness of people who murmur at the compassion of God who forgives without regard to works. This is the most natural reading, and anything more than this is mere speculation about things it does not actually say.
Furthermore, even if we take your position and see this is as a direct parallel to the Christian life, your logic still does not make sense in its own universe since the first thing we hear of this son is his wickedness in verse 12. To ask for his inheritance before the death of the father is a monstrous sin and a sign of an unregenerate. It is only until he “comes to his senses” later in the parable, that he sees the error of his ways and returns home.
Furthermore, the other son is presumably “at home,” or in your view, saved, but murmurs against his own brother. Shall there be angels in heaven, or other Christians saved by grace, who will murmur at those who are greater sinners than they are who repent? If not, why not?
Lastly, your view contradicts the scriptures which say: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Php 1:6). Again, “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified” (Rom 8:30). Again, “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Rom 11:29). And again, “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect” (Mar 13:22).
On that latter verse, to say “if it were possible” plainly implies that it is impossible, even in the height of the extreme delusions of the false prophets and Messiahs, for the elect to ultimately be lost. From the verse in Romans, we see no hint of a condition or a “maybe,” but a plain promise that “whom God calls (of the elect), He justifies, and whom he justifies he glorifies.” If those whom God predestinates can fail to be called, justified and glorified, then this passage has no meaning at all. The same with the last two passages, what God has begun, He finishes, and what He gives, He does not repent at giving. But if what you say is true, God does not finish it, and mankind makes Him repent all day long, with their coming and going out of His salvation.
While it is certainly possible for some to be enlightened, and to taste of the benefits of the spirit, the outward ministrations and the common blessings of those in the church, yet these same people are never said to be “known” of the Father and then have fallen away. They cry out, Lord, Lord, and boast of their exorcising of devils, and of many good works and miracles, and yet are told I never knew you. Not that they had fallen from grace and were once known, but are now rejected; but rather they were never known at all, from the very beginning.
Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They must leave not because they once were saved, and because they lost their salvation. They must leave because they were never of us from the very beginning:
1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Contrast this with the Sheep, who are always known of God, even before the foundation of the world, and are given from the Father to the Son by sovereign grace:
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Therefore, we conclude that the Elect can never fall away, and your doctrine is consequently in contradiction of the scriptures.
Later you argue, why does Christ teach them so that they do not fall away, if they could not fall away? In response, I say, Christ also commands them to “be ye perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect.” And “Sin no more,” yet they all plainly still sin, as we all do, fighting against the sins in the flesh as in Romans 7. As long as we are in flesh, we cannot be perfect. So why did Christ tell us to be perfect? Or, why does Christ tell us to beware of persecution, so we do not “trip” when they occur? Because the same God who upholds the elect, has ordained methods by which they are upheld. It is not through robotic force on our souls against our will, but through the renewing of our souls in the first place (Eph 2:5), His “working in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Php 2:13), His working of providence (Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.), and the preaching of the word (Rom 10:17), so that the elect are thoroughly equipped. And since amongst the wheat are also the tares, and since God’s election is secret, it is necessary also to warn them as well, so that they cannot feign ignorance. For “by the knowledge of the law is sin,” and “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin” (John 15:22).
Thus the knowledge of the scriptures is salvation to the elect, those who have true faith in God and are known of God before the world began, and damnation to the reprobate, who have no excuse.
You didn’t, but then you say you have to KEEP it. If you cannot possibly earn it, how can you keep it? It is a gift, given for repentance and accepting Jesus for who He is and what He did, for you.
Salvation, real and honest Salvation will produce fruit. Someone can claim to be saved, yet not be, still walking jofully in sin. By their fruits you shall know them.
He says he holds those the Father has given Him and that No One can pluck them from His hand. No One can pluck me out, not you, not satan, not even me.
I am saved. I do not need to worry about losing it, because I can’t.
Hebrews6:4-6 is interesting, especially if you add verses 7 and 8. Context and amplifying vereses can be important.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: ( A Saved Soul)
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (An Unsaved Soul, even if Salvation is claimed. By their Fruits you shall know them.)
Salvation produces a change inside the Saved person. You don’t live more right because you ‘have to’ but because you WANT to. I do not go to church because I have to, but because I WANT to, to hear the preached Word, to get that drink of Living Water.
No change? Very probably no Salvation (See verse 8 above.)
“Then teach me your interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6, please.
Gill, Matthew Henry and others, interpret these as not being Christians. Rather, they are “enlightened” in the sense of baptism, as most of the early Christians interpreted. The ancient Syriac translates the word to “baptism.” I myself would say that they can have a belief in God, like a Demon, and come to some knowledge of the truth, as in knowing dry facts, and yet not have the faith that is imparted by the Holy Spirit, by whom only we can believe (1 Co 12:3). They “taste,” and they “partake,” but only in the sense of those who, during the Apostolic age, like Judas, were permitted to excise demons with the Holy Spirit, though they themselves were never regenerated. Thus, the meaning is that those who “were not of us,” leave and never return.
Furthermore, even if your interpretation were correct, which you haven’t given me yet (though I guess it), the passage which you value the most begins with an “if,” and so, at best, is only proposing a hypothetical, and therefore is just as easily a warning against falling away, which then receives my same answer to your quote on John 16:1.
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