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To: Publius Valerius

“Everyone needs to set aside the petty bickering about doctrine and start figuring out how to reverse our losses. They are getting bigger.”

“The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

I’ve argued with Calvinists often enough that this might sound odd, but it is NOT up to us to convert people. Our job is to faithfully proclaim the Gospel: “repent and believe”. But we cannot make men repent. Not by offering them coffeehouses instead of churches. Not by hiring the reincarnation of Michael Jackson to be the ‘worship leader’.

We can repent and pray, but I’m not sure what to pray for any more - revival, or judgment. Increasingly, I’m inclined to think the latter...


30 posted on 07/26/2013 7:27:02 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
but I’m not sure what to pray for any more - revival, or judgment.

When I'm not sure what to pray for, I usually turn here:

"Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name; Thy kingdom come Thy will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our trespasses As we forgive those who trespass against us; And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. "

Oddly enough, something in there usually jumps out at me as appropriate to the situation.

34 posted on 07/26/2013 7:33:02 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mr Rogers
but it is NOT up to us to convert people. Our job is to faithfully proclaim the Gospel: “repent and believe”.

I think what you're saying is true, but I also think that we have an obligation, through spreading the Word, to make a concerted effort to bring in the sheaves, so to speak. I think in general, we are failing in this. For instance, when high-profile protestant church leaders are becoming entangled in extra-martial affairs and the Catholic church is caught in its own sex scandals, it hurts Christians as a whole because it damages our ability to speak to moral issues with authority.

So instead of sitting around arguing the merits of transubstantiation, the question should be: holy cow! More and more people are turning away from Christ and rejecting the church. Why? And what can we do to fix this?

35 posted on 07/26/2013 7:47:23 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Mr Rogers
I’ve argued with Calvinists often enough that this might sound odd, but it is NOT up to us to convert people. Our job is to faithfully proclaim the Gospel: “repent and believe”. But we cannot make men repent. Not by offering them coffeehouses instead of churches. Not by hiring the reincarnation of Michael Jackson to be the ‘worship leader’. We can repent and pray, but I’m not sure what to pray for any more - revival, or judgment. Increasingly, I’m inclined to think the latter...

Do what I do - pray for a revival, and pray for mercy.

38 posted on 07/26/2013 8:10:12 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Mr Rogers

Read the old testament, judgment even affects the remnant.

For me, I pray for revival and mercy.


48 posted on 07/26/2013 10:10:55 AM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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