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To: Alex Murphy

re: “John Calvin had much to say about the application of biblical principles to politics. His focus on the sovereignty of God in all aspects of Creation led Calvin to believe in God’s ordinance not only in the spiritual realm, but also in civil government. Citing Scriptural passages such as Proverbs 8:15-16 – “By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth” – Calvin demonstrated that all governments are ordained by God.”

Totally agree on the sinfulness of man and that God has given government for the purpose of providing law and order. However, the idea that All governments are “ordained” by God just isn’t the case. Yes, God permits man freewill to pick lousy leaders and, yes, God could remove and has removed bad leaders, yet, consider this passage from Hosea:

Hosea 8:1-4
“Put the trumpet to your lips!
An eagle is over the house of the LORD
because the people have broken my covenant
and rebelled against my law
2 Israel cries out to me,
‘Our God, we acknowledge you!’
3 But Israel has rejected what is good;
an enemy will pursue him.
4 They set up kings without my consent;
they choose princes without my approval
With their silver and gold
they make idols for themselves
to their own destruction.


4 posted on 07/17/2013 11:19:29 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd; Alex Murphy; All

That particular verse of this prophecy which you have quoted is affirmed to have been fulfilled (or started) by Jeroboam, the first of those Kings who received 10 tribes of Israel away from the House of David, leaving only Judah and Benjamin.

That is how Barnes, in his commentary, applies it:

“They have set up kings, but not by ME - God Himself foretold to Jeroboam by Ahijah the prophet, that He would “rend the kingdom out of the hands of Solomon, and give ten tribes” to him,”

So Clarke,
“They have set up kings, but not by me - Properly speaking, not one of the kings of Israel, from the defection of the ten tribes from the house of David, was the anointed of the Lord.”

The Geneva Commentary,
“That is, Jeroboam, by whom they sought their own liberty, and to obey my will.”

So the Illustrious Matthew Henry, who also explains how the verse should be understood:
“So they did when they revolted from their allegiance to the house of David, and set up Jeroboam, wherein, though they fulfilled God’s secret counsel, yet they aimed not at his glory, nor consulted his oracle, nor applied to him by prayer for direction, nor had any regard to his providence, but were led by their own humour and hurried on by the impetus of their own passions.”

Gill applies it the same way, and explains it as Henry does:
“this refers to the case of Jeroboam their first king, after their separation from the house of David, and from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin; for though his becoming king of Israel was according to the secret will of God, and by his overruling providence; yet it was done without his express orders, and without asking counsel of him, or his consent, and of their own heads”

This is significant, because God Himself declares that He was the author of this judgment:

1Ki 11:31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:

Therefore the meaning isn’t that God was unaware of Jeroboam, as is usually the literal translation (the KJV and YLT renders it “I knew it not,” instead of “approved it not,”) or that God did not set up this ruler, but rather that the people did not consult with the Prophet or make any prayers on the matter, as if God did not exist.

For further support, there is not any ruler in the world who is not set up or brought down by God.

Pro 8:15-16 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. (16) By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them.

Jer 27:6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.

Dan 2:20-21 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: (21) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Psa 62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God.

Furthermore, all that God foreknows, He predestinates. In other words, nothing He foresees is by chance or what He did not will to occur. He is not ignorant of the future and its happenings, or lets anything go by chance, but rather determines what will happen and what will not happen by decree.

Act 4:26-28 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. (27) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, (28) For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

To make it more clear, the ESV uses the word “predestined”:

Acts 4:28
28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.


7 posted on 07/17/2013 2:28:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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