I don’t know much about LDS theology. I believe that a lot of their scriptures are challenged by people more educated than me.
But,,, if “by their fruits you shall know them”, then something works for them. I have lived in Utah among them. I have seen the clean homes, parks, retail areas, no graffiti, respectful young people, and especially helpful and respectful clerks in store toward elderly people. I have seen their patriotism and social stability up close. I’m not even talking about their SHTF preparedness.
So what does their religion contribute to this stability and quality of life? If their theology is flawed, what are they doing better than all of the rest of us?
Social stability? Take a closer look @ what you describe as "social stability"...and remember that Utah is 60% Lds:
If you go to this post I did a while back, you can see all the original sources for what is below: Sociology of Utah
I provided links to first two headlines below...plus several others [wherever you see "source headline"]:
* Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah
* Utah leads the nation in rates of depression
* And referenced where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls: http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]
Other related depression and suicide Utah anecdotes:
* ”Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse.” Source headline: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem [Original link...click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
And depression is not only a “female” issue in Utah:
* At least at one time, Utah lead the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate — 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people — in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology.” Source headline: Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore [Original link -- click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* ”Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned ‘Facing East,’ now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach." Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts
* ”For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html
Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest: I
In addition, per this article –the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.
So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!
One point that can be drawn from the above is that Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!
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From a 2012 article: ...the gayest city in the U.S. is Salt Lake City, Utah, according to The Advocate, the gay and lesbian newsmagazine...The Advocate used different measures to establish “per capita queerness” — including a city’s number of teams entered in the Gay Softball World Series, gay bookstores, openly gay elected officials and semifinalists in the International Mr. Leather Contest...
Also:
* Utah leads the nation in # of porn subscriptions per capita, porn consumption among the general internet user population and dial-up users. Source 1, and Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?, Benjamin Edelman (Journal of Economic Perspectives—Volume 23, Number 1—Winter 2009—Pages 209–220). Utah also lead the nation in porn busts. FBI in Utah Lead Nation in Porn Busts.
Also, Utah:
Sexual misconduct pervasive problem among teachers (KSL.com, Oct. 25, 2009)
Quote from this KSL article: SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State education officials say sexual misconduct by teachers is the No. 1 reason Utah educators are forced to surrender their licenses. Records shows Utah has nearly 20,000 licensed educators. Since 1992, the State Board of Education has suspended or revoked 313 teacher licenses -- 208 of them for sexual misconduct. That number excludes 10 cases still being investigated by the Utah Professional Practices Advisory Commission. The behaviors range from inappropriate touching and downloading pornography on a school computer to full-blown molestation...In 2005, a survey by The Associated Press ranked Utah 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses based on disciplinary records from 2001 to 2005 in 50 states and the District of Columbia. At that time, 52.7 percent of Utah teachers who lost their licenses surrendered them for sexual misconduct -- twice the national rate, the AP found.
Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools (Oct. 25, 2009)
Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average (April 6, 2010)
Utah Sexual assault realities:
* A few years ago, KSL reported that there's a reported rape in Utah less than 9.5 hours apart (see http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14136899)-- that's up just from 2008 when it was just under a rape per 10 hours...http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf, p. 6
* Per the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (see also Utah Department of Health), the 2008 Utah rape rate was 63.7 per 100,000 females vs. U.S. average of 57.4. For entire crime report, see:
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf
* BTW, 2008 wasn't some “new surge”: Since 1991, Utah’s rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes.
[Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html] -- and inched to 13th by 2004...http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=290)
* Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently has ranked between 13 & 18 re: rape rate?
* Why as of 6 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?
Utah: "...officials are already struggling to house and treat the sex offenders who make up 30 percent of the state's prison population — well above the national average of 12 percent." Source: Tougher laws keep sex offenders behind bars
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In just the last several years, authorities have tracked BILLIONS in white collar fraud committed by Mormons... [for more on that next post]
Social stability? Take a closer look @ what you describe as "social stability"...and remember that Utah is 60% Lds:
Lds members have fleeced over 1 & 1/2 $BILLION from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
(2010 Source puts it at over $1.4 billion...and MORE has been uncovered since then!) : Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud
Can you fill me in any other religious sect that has less than 2% of the overall population (1.7%) -- that has launched at least $1.4 billion worth of fraud schemes vs. fellow sect members the past two or three years?
If you only have time to click on one article link below...read this one: JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010 Be sure to read the comments of FBI special agent Cameron Saxey (who is Lds)...the article mentions how the Utah jurisdictional Securities Fraud Task Force was working on 100+ cases...meaning that $1.4 billion total doesn't tell it all!
The sad individual accounts [Indeed: Pray for the victims, most Lds]:
* All in the Mormon Family Mortgage Fraud [Re: Idaho fraud]
Source: Conservative Babylon.com, June 27, 2012
* Episode Detail: The Mormon Madoff - American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels and Scandals
Source: TV Guide.com re: series American Greed: Scams, Scoundrels, and Scandals, June 20, 2012
* Former LDS bishop gets jail, probation for massive fraud
Source: Provo Herald, June 7, 2012
* LDS Bishop Pleads Guilty To Fraud
Source: Kutv.com, June 7, 2012
* Utah investors caught up in alleged $170M fraud: SEC says 2 men committed fraud as they raised $170M to build Caribbean resorts, and that 250 of the 1,700 alleged victims are from Utah
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 31, 2012
* Beware of affinity fraud ‘predators’ who exploit trust, LDS spokesman warns
Source: Fraud College.org, April 2, 2012
* Former LDS bishop charged with fraud, pleads not guilty
Connecticut Criminal Defense Blog, March 29, 2012
* Former Mormon Bishop In Trumbull Charged With Investor Fraud
Source: Hartford Courant, March 27, 2012
* The LDS Church Issues a Strong Position on Affinity Fraud
Source: Utah Securities Fraud.com, March 7, 2012
* Affinity Fraud Called a Destructive Crime at Conference
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 20, 2012
* Church Representative to Address Fraud College [From the official Lds Web site]
Source: Lds.org, Feb. 15, 2012
* Affinity Fraud statement
Source: Official Mormon Newsroom.org, Undated (Early 2012)
* Father, son used Mormon connections to commit $220M Ponzi scheme (Utah case)
Source: Mormon church-owned KSL.com, Dec. 16, 2011
* Former LDS bishop cons elderly man out of life savings, police say
Source: Provo Daily Herald, Oct. 19, 2011
* Tag archives @Utahsecuritiesfraud.com: LDS Church
* Provo councilman Steve Turley charged with felonies [LDS High Council Member]
Source: Provo Herald, July 27, 2011
* Feds arrest St. George business man, philanthropist for mail fraud
Source: Mormon-church owned KSL.com, June 11, 2011
* Former LDS leader charged in fraud against Ute football coach, others
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, June 8, 2011
* Suspected Mormon Con Artist Pleading Guilty to $78M Scam
Source: Streetsweeper.org, May 31, 2011
* Mormon Madoff? Source: Financial Fraud Law.com, May 27, 2011
* A Fraud Played Out on Family and Friends
Source: New York Times, May 26, 2011
* St. George investor ordered to jail [ex-Lds bishop]
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, April 15, 2011
* Using trust to steal (Utah affinity fraud)
Source: Ogden (UT) Standard Examiner, Feb. 3, 2011
* JOHN L. SMITH: Thieves in the temple: How 'affinity fraud' hurts LDS church members
Source: Las Vegas Review-Journal, Sept. 12, 2010
* Local political gadfly arrested for exploiting elderly woman
Source: Provo Daily Herald, May 4, 2010
* Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS church skips fraud-prevention event
Source: Salt Lake Tribune, May 2, 2010
* Kaneohe swindler is sentenced
Source: Honolulu Star-Bulletin, April 6, 2010
* Investors with troubled firm have Mormon ties
Source: Austin American Statesman, Jan. 16, 2010
* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: www.connect2utah.com (KUTV) Jan. 7, 2010
* Lindon Man Accused of Trying to Kill Witnesses to Alleged Scam
Source: MidUtahRadio.com, Nov. 19, 2009
* KSL 5 News investigates affinity fraud
Source: KSL.com Nov. 9, 2009
* Mormon victims are caught up in $50M scam to sell gold bullion
Salt Lake Tribune, Sept. 18, 2009
* LDS Church returned $200K in Southwick Tithing
Source: AP, Sept. 14, 2009
* Merriman's church donations may be tained [Momon Ponzi schemer's tithe monies ill-gotten?]
Source: Denver Post, April 24, 2009
* Man Who Defrauded Fellow Church Goer Pleads Guilty
Source: Fox News, April 8, 2009
* Calif. Man Charged with $40 million Ponzi scheme
Source: AP, March 20, 2009
The bottom line here is that you would expect a church that has 2% of the nation's population to have about 2% of affinity fraud cases -- even if they were as criminal as the atheists and agnostics! [You would expect them to have less than 2% if there was a true higher moral standard at operation here]. You don't expect cases involving $one and a half BILLION!
Let me educate you a bit more.
Your quote refers to FALSE PROPHETS!!
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
They seem to be honest, family oriented, and all I have met were friendly and low key. As to what they believe, I am neither offended nor repulsed by their faith.....unlike some self righteous fellow Christians.
You are correct “by their fruits you shall know them”, which refers to false prophets, and we certainly know Joseph Smith.
It is ground into mormons to “be nice”, they must earn their own salvation......they have no choice.