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To: marshmallow
I have an interest in this because routinely our government is asked to participate in this matter. Washington, et al are asked to condemn the modern secular Republic of Turkey.

We have enough problems. IMO the issue appears to be the word genocide.

Plus I worked with a number of Turks, lived in Ankara for a time, and I have great respect for the Turkish people.

Our own Ambassador Morgenthau in those years reported the atrocities of the Ottomans against Armenian civilians living in Turkey. There is no doubt about that.

I believe that modern Turkey recognizes the horrific deaths -- and asks about recognizing Turk civilians killed in that W.W.I Ottoman Empire vs. Russian Empire (that included Armenia I believe) conflict as well as post-war conflicts.

According to a wiki source Armenian genocide deaths totaled 600,000 - 1,800,000.

Effect of World War I on Each Country

According to this source the Ottoman Empire Casualties from those years included 4,200,000 civilians.


Total Deaths: 5,000,000 (Rank = 1 / 16)
Total Deaths % of pop.: 23.5% (Rank = 1 / 16)
Troops: 2,850,000 (Rank = 8 / 16)
Troops % of pop.: 13.4% (Rank = 8 / 16)
Military Deaths: 800,000 (Rank = 6 / 16)
Military Deaths % of Troops: 28.1% (Rank = 3 / 16)
Civilian Deaths: 4,200,000 (Rank = 1 / 16)
Civilian Deaths % of pop.: 19.7% (Rank = 1 / 16)

I believe that the modern Republic of Turkey acknowledges the horrific death toll and the roll of the Ottoman Empire but they object to labeling it genocide. That word is factor for reasons mentioned in a link below.

There are those other 2+ million. The Ottoman Empire and the Russian Empire that included Armenia were at war. Are those two million the Turkish civilians killed by Russian Empire troops in the fighting? And the fighting after both the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire collapsed but fighting continued between Turks and Armenians?

This is no attempt to mitigate the horror. Even the modern constitutional democratic Republic of Turkey has admitted the horror. But calling it genocide? Here's something on that.

Labeling the atrocities genocide appears to be an attempt to assist in getting resolutions from our government and countries around the world that will bolster Armenia's case against modern Turkey to reclaim land and other assets lost 100 years ago.

Recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey is a secondary issue – interview with Harut Sassounian. [An Armenian living in southern California.]

[Excerpt ]"The real purpose of the resolution is not recognition of the Armenian Genocide, but a political struggle – the issue of which side has a larger political capital in Washington. . . . [T]he admission of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey is an issue of secondary importance for us. . . . our lands were seized and our 3,000-year-old culture was destroyed. . . . Therefore, our true demand is compensation for this injustice. . . . Now specialists must study the lawyers’ advice and decide which issue should be submitted to which court, as there is the International Court of Justice, European Court of Human Rights, US Federal Courts, etc. This is a most important issue. It must be studied with all seriousness, because, if we lose in court, Turkey will claim that Armenians have no legal demands."

9 posted on 06/08/2013 12:49:33 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

The thing is that the Turks can admit to genocide without giving back the Armenians their land


14 posted on 06/09/2013 12:16:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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