“Many in England wanted Spain to restore the Church. It wasn’t that cut and dried.”
Oh but it was cut-and-dried, Henry was king. These were not pluralistic times anywhere in Europe.
“Yeah, and? English!= Protestant. English Catholics built it. Henry stole it.”
You are conveniently leaving out the political angle. Rome subverted England and Henry outmaneuvered them and separated from Rome politically - which meant that he had to necessarily separate religiously. That’s the way it was then.
“Stolen property should be returned with interest accrued.”
You’re being ridiculous. Not even the Catholic Church is calling for the return of this property.
“Nah, we’ll wait for the Anglicans to gay themselves out and then buy it and get it back again. Won’t be long.”
You’re awfully flippant towards others faith, even if they have blatant issues, and go beyond what the Catholic Church would even say about the CoE.
You’re not going to start a Catholic vs. Protestant war here - if you understood your history you wouldn’t even try.
“The point being that they are rightfully Catholic property and should be returned to the Catholic church. Theft is theft.”
Not gonna happen. The political entity no longer exists, it’s like trying to return property to the government of Prussia.
The cathedrals were paid for by the English to be used by the English. But feel free to litigate it, neither Rome nor London is suing for return of property. Why are you?
“What reason did they have? England was Catholic!” So now you are suing for the return of all of England? Read your history. Rome fumbled the political ball, underestimated their ability to control England, and overestimated Spain’s military capability. England left Romes political control, and the rise of the Nation State - free from the political bureaucracy and oppression of Rome, unprecedented prosperity and technological development ensued.
“Far from it. Like I said, we built it. The throne is a Catholic throne, and will eventually return.”
No, you didn’t build it, the English built it, they kept it, and nobody, except you, seems to have a problem with it.
Thrones are earthly errors and impediments to freedom of all kinds and edifices for tyranny. The Catholic Church of today recognizes this. They don’t want it back - not like that. They prefer to stick to enticing CoE members with a consistent religious message. They’ve had some notable success, but it’s far from clear whether it represents a significant stride towards a unified church. I don’t think it does.
Perhaps this discussion of Catholics being allowed within the monarchy one step at a time will help gain acceptance of conversion from CoE to Roman Catholicism. Who knows?
There aren’t any hornets in that hornets nest you keep poking at. Give it up.
“Oh but it was cut-and-dried, Henry was king. These were not pluralistic times anywhere in Europe.”
Which is why Henry had to enforce his will and execute priests. So much so that by the time the Tudors were done with it - they managed to eradicate the entire heirarchy. Again - it was not until 1850 that it was even restored.
“Rome subverted England”
Nonsense. Again - England was Catholic prior to Henry VIII. Nobody forced them to be. England had been Catholic prior to Henry VIII for around 800-900 years.
England has been Catholic for longer (still!) than they have been Protestant.
“You’re being ridiculous. Not even the Catholic Church is calling for the return of this property.”
I’m saying, look at what did happen. The Catholic church built it and Henry took it away. Ergo - the Catholic church does have the right to the return of our buildings plus interest accrued in the meantime.
“You’re awfully flippant towards others faith”
Oh. Perhaps I should quote the purported ‘archbishop’ of Canterbury saying that he’s going to bless gay people and ‘marry’ them.
Thank you Henry VIII for bringing this abomination to England!
“if you understood your history you wouldn’t even try.”
If you understood your history you would understand why the Catholics in England feel the way they do. The ones who survived the purge and weren’t executed.
“Not gonna happen. The political entity no longer exists, it’s like trying to return property to the government of Prussia.”
What political entity doesn’t exist? The heirarchy of the Catholic church? The Crown? Both entities existed then. Both entities exist now. I don’t see what’s the problem. The Crown has an outstanding debt to the Catholic church.
“were paid for by the English to be used by the English.”
Which justifies Henry stealing from the English? Makes no sense to me. They were build by the English Catholics for use by the English Catholics.
“But feel free to litigate it, neither Rome nor London is suing for return of property. Why are you?”
Because they have a solid claim to it?
“So now you are suing for the return of all of England?”
England will return to us again. :)
“England left Romes political control, and the rise of the Nation State - free from the political bureaucracy and oppression of Rome, unprecedented prosperity and technological development ensued.”
Right. As if England wasn’t prosperous in the 13th century. Look it up. England used to be the core of the Danish empire, was the core of the Plantagenet Empire.
England had been prosperous for a long time. It became even more prosperous under the Conquerer. Why do you think they were able to dominate France under the Angevins?
“No, you didn’t build it, the English built it, they kept it, and nobody, except you, seems to have a problem with it.”
Actually, Catholicism in England predates the Monarchy. So yes, yes, we built it.
“Thrones are earthly errors and impediments to freedom of all kinds and edifices for tyranny.”
When in England... Live as the English do.
“The Catholic Church of today recognizes this.”
Euhm. We do? You are Catholic? I see nothing in the Catechism saying that constitutional monarchy is evil.
“They prefer to stick to enticing CoE members with a consistent religious message. They’ve had some notable success, but it’s far from clear whether it represents a significant stride towards a unified church. I don’t think it does.”
It won’t be unified. It will be replaced. The CoE will be dumped on the side of the road once all the faithful members give up on the Archbishop of Caterbury and leave.
Then the Church will be the Catholic church once again. As will the throne.