Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: aMorePerfectUnion
Thank you for your latest. What a relief to see somebody as longwinded as I am :o) -- no, sincerely, I value your time and care. As for the first half (the strong doctrine/weak discipline problem) you're quite right, we've been dealing with all this stuff for 2,000 years. It's the sensus infidelium, the unfaithful doin' what they do: being unfaithful. Followed by, or accompanied by (ta-daaah) ...the Lives of the Saints: the good guy showing up and having to reform and renew it all over again.

Do enjoy that Michael Voris link I sent.

Now, some more of your particulars:

"I find “annulment for so many reasons after exchanging vows to be identical in practical terms to divorce/remarriage."

I see you don't have much experience with Marriage Tribunals. I go through it every year with each new batch our RCIA students (adult converts) who have got busted-up marriages in their pre-Catholic backgrounds, and have to get it all squared away before they can receive the Sacraments. It is HARD to go through with a Petition for Annulment. And it doesn't always work out. Often the Tribunal finds "for the Bond" --- meaning, they find that the first marriage WAS validly made, and therefore the civil divorce and the remarriage were NOT valid. And that is a painful situation: people are told they are objectively living in adultery, because their first marriage which they contracted before their conversion, really was a valid marriage.

A valid marriage vow is binding until the death of one of the spouses. 'Nuff said on that.

"Say what you will about what the Church believes, I don’t find it in the lives of the majority of the membership."

Here's a list of some of the stuff Paul found in the churches he planted: "discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder... they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

And on and on. Paul sure could rant on his churchpeople's shortcomings!

The point being: the Church always had problems, major problems, with people not holding onto and living the truth.

Yet we are called and empowered to do better, all of us. As just one example the Catechism says this about homosexuals:

#2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
That applies to any sin. Including yours and mine.

"Evangelicals that are true to His Word do not [accept the prevailing cultural rot on sex.]

Of course not, Neither do Catholics who are true to His word.

"Admittedly, you can probably find some members of every church that accept the cultural norms."

Exactly.

“Find me another Church with clear-cut doctrines against human embryo experimentation and manipulation; against alternative reproductive technologies; against euthanasia and the intentional programming of death.” "Sure. BUT, show me a membership that actually lives out that teaching."

Read the Lives of the Saints. Or come to my parish!!!

"Now, please realize I am not JUST saying this about the Roman Church. I would say the identical things about ANY Church, if they are true but you are asking specifically about the Roman Church."

< Yup.

OK, back to the raised beds! In with the onions! Peas be with you!

76 posted on 04/13/2013 2:30:50 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (" If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies ]


To: Mrs. Don-o

I too have (smaller these days) raised beds. It makes gardening so much easier. I haven’t begun working on them yet this Spring.

“A valid marriage vow is binding until the death of one of the spouses. “

Except God and Christ, said, except for illicit sex, which allows divorce. By the way, there are actually Christians who believe you get ONE marriage. Even death doesn’t set you free. You can never remarry.

I agree there will always be problems in churches (I was in the ministry), but the church as a whole should be growing as disciples, meaning adhering to the teaching and growing in grace. When it isn’t - in large numbers - I asked what value the teaching was having. None apparently, or little.

Happy gardening.


79 posted on 04/13/2013 2:38:56 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson