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To: DouglasKC; All

“They start off with a lie (non-Christian) and a pejorative use of “cult”. If they wanted to be honest they could have said “non-traditional” or “unorthodox” Christian.”


That would be an even worse lie, since it paints a religious cult as being, somehow, valid. You are not “non-traditional,” and the phrase “unorthodox Christian” is wrong, insomuch that the UCG is not Christian. We might as well say the Baha’i are Christian, or Christian Scientists are Christian, or the source cult of your own sect as “Christian,” but no Christian is going to agree with this once we establish the details of your theology.

According to Paul, anyone preaching a different Gospel is accursed:

Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This does not refer to minor issues, such as dietary rules (which you follow) or holy days (which you follow).:

Rom 14:1-7 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (2) For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. (3) Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (4) Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. (7) For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

(The fact that you put so much emphasis on these matters is itself a warning sign of the nature of your religion.)

Paul’s warning, therefore, is on the matters of most importance, which he (and the Apostles) speaks on constantly throughout his espitles: The nature of salvation, and the nature of the God who saves.

On both of these issues, your religion proves itself to be utterly bankrupt. Let’s begin:

“UCG doesn’t embrace the trinity doctrine because the trinity doctrine is not biblical...it’s an evolved doctrine that didn’t become an offical part of church teaching until 3 centuries after the death of Christ.”


As has been previously discussed with you, the nature of God is clearly found in the scriptures.

That the Trinity is in the scripture, that cannot be questioned:

Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

That Jesus is literally God, there is no question of it:

Mat_1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

That the Father and Son are distinct, and yet one God, cannot be questioned:

Joh 8:17-18 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. (18) I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.

God Speaking in the Old Testament:
Isa_41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa_44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Jesus Christ speaking in the new, calling Himself by the same name. Not two different gods who are made “one” by being in the same family, but One God:

Rev_1:17 ... Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

That the Holy Spirit is God, and not an inanimate “force,” cannot be questioned:

1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Act_13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

At the center of all of this is the fact that Christianity is monotheistic. We believe in only one God, as clearly taught in the scriptures. Is YOUR religion monotheistic? Let’s find out:

According to the papers on the UCG website, their war with the Trinity actually centers on their rejection of God being limited to “only one being” (11). According to the UCG, God is one in the sense of collective unity, when 2 different beings are one in a collective sense, as sharing common goals, but not one in substance:

“This idea of collective unity is clearly demonstrated in Genesis 2:23-24, “And
Adam said: ‘This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.’ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be
joined to his wife, and they shall become one [echad] flesh.” Here two distinct individuals are
“one” flesh. This is not talking about one in number but one in collective unity, harmony, peace
and the sharing of common goals.” (10)

Thus, the idea of there being only one God, is changed to merely a devotion to but one God, but leaves the door open for many gods to exist, citing various scriptures to allege that they are “problematic if one concludes there
is only one being called God in the Old Testament” (14). And more:

“The purpose of Deuteronomy 6:4 is to show ancient Israel that their Elohim is the only
God and that all the pagan gods are to be rejected. Thus the purpose is not to explain the nature
of God but to show that He is unique and the only God to worship.” (11)

Due to the obvious problems of this theology, your religion uses the concept of the “God Family,” and the “collective unity,” in order to maintain the idea that they are yet “one” God, though there are actually two separate beings in the Godhead (the Holy Spirit is simply done away with, since His name does not fit the “Family” concept), as they say here: “God can be defined as a family—one God family, although currently consisting of two beings” (15).

The logic follows from hence, after they deny the idea of “adoption,” that we will partake of divinity and join with God in the God-Family, IOW, become “one” in the Godhead the same way their version of Jesus and the Father are one:

“Thus, the Godhead is not a closed Trinity, nor an absolute unity of only one God, but a dynamic family unity that allows for Spirit-born believers to become the very children of God.” (41)

http://members.ucg.org/papers/NatureofGod.pdf

Throughout those entire 40 something pages, not once were any of the scriptures addressed which refute their claims. What does the scripture really say of these ideas, in brief?

That there is only one God, not defined as a “family unit,” but having no other “God” beside Him:

Isa_44:8 ... Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

This unity utterly precludes the possibility of there being “two” separate beings who are merely “united” in the sense of cooperation. There is only one God, united in substance, and yet not contradictory to when Isaiah writes the phrase “The Lord GOD, and His Spirit hath sent me.”

Neither can there be any other gods formed. There are no other gods joining the godhead, no “open” trinity. It is utterly closed. There is, and always will be, and always has been, just one God:

Isa_43:10 ... before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

None formed before, none formed after.

The UCG’s view, therefore, is a thinly veiled polytheism, very similar to the Mormon concept which argues that they themselves are monotheistic, because there is one Godhead, but that the Father literally had sex with a goddess wife and produced the Son. They make the same argument against “strict monotheism,” and veil it with the same concept of strict devotion to just one God, but not that there are not any other gods.

We can judge, therefore, that the theology of the UCG is utterly incompatible with the monotheism of the Bible and Christianity. It is not a Christian religion, but is actually a non-Christian religious cult, due to its drastically different theological beliefs, and its emphasis that they alone can “lay hands” on people to pass on the Holy Spirit, making them the “One true church of God” on Earth.

” Salvation is a free gift but obedience is expected in return.”


Typical equivocation that we can expect in such movements. They constantly use the same language, but redefine it, and equivocate when it is stated.

Either salvation is all of grace, or it is not. If grace, then works or the lack thereof can neither add nor take away from the work of God:

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The fruit (works) that follows from faith is also not from us, but the work of God who dwells within us. Therefore, it is God who receives the glory, and who wills for us to be conformed into the image of His Son. We, ourselves, receive nothing except what is given to us by God, according to His own purpose and grace before the foundation of the world, that we would be made holy, not because he foresaw that we would be holy or because we could be holy with our own power:

Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Man, of himself, is simply unable to do good. He is, to the core, evil, and unwilling. Working on his own, his choice is to serve evil, and never to seek after God:

Rom 3:9-19 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (17) And the way of peace have they not known: (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes. (19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore, it is God who quickens us, and opens our eyes, and not ourselves who are “giving what is expected”:

1Co_12:3 ... and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


47 posted on 04/12/2013 1:56:30 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thanks for that rather lengthy response. How’s things going today? Staying busy?


48 posted on 04/12/2013 2:00:21 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; DouglasKC

Thanks, GPH, very helpful post.

Douglas, the only thing I would add is that when someone is expressing an opinion, that doesn’t mean it’s a lie. I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Think of it as a law thing. God’s law says don’t bear false witness against your neighbor. If I say someone is telling a lie, when I have no proof, that’s bearing false witness. If carm or one of us sincerely believes ucog “Binitarianism” is contrary to the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity, and therefore disqualifies ucog as a Christian denomination, then that’s an opinion, and I happen to agree with it. You can always question the validity of an opinion on objective grounds, but an opinion is not a lie. It’s just a belief. To prove a lie you have to prove motive, and to do that you’d either have to have a smoking gun, or you’d have to know their heart as well as God does. So for me it’s just safer staying with the Biblical analysis. Just sayin …

Peace,

SR


81 posted on 04/13/2013 11:23:05 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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