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To: TheZMan

That’s the old foreknowledge versus predestination debate. There was and is foreknowledge, that is unavoidable by any honest reader of scripture. Predestination is an extension of foreknowledge that may or may not have an element of truth. It’s a belief derived from scripture elevated to doctrine by some, whereas foreknowledge is scriptural fact not in dispute.

I’ve got family on both sides of that one and have heard it all my life. I don’t like some of the implications of predestination and am much more disposed to free will. But, due to there being some apparent scriptural support for predestination, I won’t argue against it though my heart says otherwise as do other passages of scripture.

Any apparent contradiction is due to faulty understanding on our part, imho.


23 posted on 04/06/2013 11:22:09 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
I do not deny that God gave us " Free will " but ? look where the Free will got us.
I do believe that man still has " Free will "
But in the book of Ephesians chapter 2 explains what happen to man's so called " FREE WILL " .

Man's Free Will has become corrupted, depraved, tarnished.
****

Ephesians 2 (King James Version)

Chapter 2

1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
( made alive again, i.e. born again, no one can make themselves alive again unto God.... God did it.
A dead man can not make himself alive.)

2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
( human nature, human self will, i.e. FREE WILL )

3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
It was all God, no human intervention.... it's not " FREE WILL " of the human of any sort )
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
( after the fall of Adam and Eve, all mankind are dead spiritually in the eyes of God, but, GOD, GOD, and GOD alone has quickened us, made us alive by his holy spirit, can not be by " FREE WILL "

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
( for by grace that you are saved through faith and not of yourselves, not by your own efforts, or " FREE WILL " of man... it was all by God's power, and choice )

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
( not of any efforts of man, or religious works of keeping the law, or good deeds, least anyone should be proud and boast before GOD )


Before the fall the free will of man was untarnish, untainted.

after the fall ?

Do I need to say more ?

The will of man is at the heart of the stuggle between God and man.

The will, or free will of man comes from the heart, and the bible says that the heart is despartly wicked above all things.

I also believe in God's sovereignty.
39 posted on 04/06/2013 12:08:23 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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