Posted on 04/03/2013 3:43:07 PM PDT by NYer
In the "vine and branches" discourse Jesus blends the image into its true topic, discipleship, so it should be clear to any listener with adult intelligence that "husbandman", "fruit", "branches" refer to God the Father, works of love, and discipleship (John 15:6-10).
In the "door" discourse it is abundantly clear that the language is allegorical: in John 10 verse 1-2 He speaks of a physical door, in verse 9 Jesus says "I am the door", and in verse 11 He already says "I am the good shepherd", explaining the "door" allegory.
In the three accounts of the Last Supper there is no hint of allegory and Jesus actually says to the Apostles "do it". One cannot give a command to "do" an allegory. Surely the Apostles did not take it as an allegory: St. Paul urges us to "discern the body of the Lord" in the Eucharist. Further, in John 6 the physicality of the Eucharistic food and the fact that it at the same time is His flesh "indeed" is stressed.
But a Protestant would engage in such foolishness because to him the Holy Scripture is not the Word of God, but a source of quotes that he combines at will without regard to context, like a child plays with wood blocks. The fog would lift at once if the Fathers of the Church were consulted. How did they understand the Last Supper?
Here are some:
St. Cyril of Jerusalem: Nor doubt that this is true; for He plainly says, This is my body; but rather receive the words of your Savior in faith. For since He is the Truth, He lies not. They rave foolishly then who say that the mystical blessing loses its power of sanctifying, if any remains are left till the following day. For the most holy Body of Christ will not be changed, but the power of blessing and the life giving grace is ever abiding in it. For the life-giving power of God the Father is the only-begotten Word, which was made flesh not ceasing to be the Word, but making the flesh life giving. What then? since we have in us the life of God, the Word of God dwelling in us, will our body be life-giving? But it is one thing for us by the habit of participation to have in ourselves the Son of God, another for Himself to have been made flesh, that is, to have made the body which He took from the pure Virgin His own Body. He must needs then be in a certain manner united to our bodies by His holy Body and precious Blood, which we have received for a life giving blessing in the bread and wine. For lest we should be shocked, seeing the Flesh and Blood placed on the holy altars, God, in compassion to our infirmities, pours into the offerings the power of life, changing them into the reality of His own flesh, that the body of life may be found in us, as it were a certain life-giving seed. He adds, Do this in commemoration of me.St. John Chrysostom: For this Blood molds in us a royal image, it suffers not our nobleness of soul to waste away, moreover it refreshes the soul, and inspires it with great virtue. This Blood puts to flight the devils, summons angels, and the Lord of angels. This Blood poured forth washed the world, and made heaven open. They that partake of it are built up with heavenly virtues, and arrayed in the royal robes of Christ; yes rather clothed upon by the King Himself. And since if you come clean, you come healthfully; so if polluted by an evil conscience, you come to your own destruction, to pain and torment. For if they who defile the imperial purple are smitten with the same punishment as those who tear it asunder, it is not unreasonable that they who with an unclean heart receive Christ should be beaten with the same stripes as they were who pierced Him with nails.
(from Catena Aurea to Luke 22:19-20)
You could have studied all this for yourself; what prevented you?
“In the three accounts of the Last Supper there is no hint of allegory”
I must disagree, when Jesus is physically standing there and saying this bread is my body, this wine is my blood, the metaphor is beyond obvious.
Comments like “you could have studied this yourself, what prevented you?” are insulting and unhelpful. Just because I reach a different conclusion than you does not mean I have not studied a matter.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Did not mean it to be personal, sorry.
And He asked people to keep metaphorizing their own loaves of bread? and insisted He was serious and not metaphorical for half a chapter in John 6? and no one took it metaphorically till Luther figured he wanted to start his own religion? Read the gospel every once in a while...
“nd He asked people to keep metaphorizing their own loaves of bread? and insisted He was serious and not metaphorical for half a chapter in John 6? and no one took it metaphorically till Luther figured he wanted to start his own religion? Read the gospel every once in a while...”
Annalex, I can’t keep communicating with you if you are going to keep making snide comments like “Read the gospel once in a while.”
Yes, He did ask to continue to take bread and wine in remembrance of Him, remembering the Last Supper and His sacrifice until He returns.
That explains a small part of the scriptural evidence but by far not all of it. Why "this is by body" and "do it" then? Why John 6:51ff explaining the opposite? When I see evidence of addressing the material I suggest that you read, I might begin to take you and your co-religionists seriously. Not sooner.
Why “this is my body,” and “do this in remembrance of Me?”
It seems rather straightforward to me.
Jesus is instituting a new sacrament, at Passover, to fulfill and take the place of Passover.
At Passover, the Jews remember the Angel of Death “passing over” them as he saw the blood upon their door way.
Jesus Christ is our passover lamb, now “For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:” (1st Cor. 5:7) Behold, the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world! (John 1:29)
The angel of death will pass over those of us who are protected by the blood of our passover lamb - Jesus Christ. The sacrament of communion fulfills and takes over for the Passover Feast.
So He says, this is my body, this is my blood, do this in remembrance of Me. So we do.
Is the bread He is giving His body or not?
“Is the bread He is giving His body or not?”
Not literally. Symbolically.
His resurrected body, all of Him, sits at the right hand of the Father, until all of His enemies are at the footstool of his feet.
“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.” (Hebrews 10 12-13)
Demonstrably, scripturally false; see my 655.
Sorry for this very late reply, but i had missed your comment until just now when i was reviewing past comments. In any case, as seen from my previous comments , what i meant to say was, "assuredly infallible magisterium" (when speaking according to its scope and subject based criteria) as distinct from "inspired," which was a mistake more careful proof reading should have caught.
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