Posted on 03/13/2013 2:42:49 PM PDT by Morgana
The new leader of the Catholic Church, Jorge Cardinal Bergoglio, promises to be a pre-eminent spokesperson making the case for life in the world. Taking the name Francis I, Cardinal Bergoglio has spent many years living a life of simplicity and poverty modeled after his patron, St. Francis of Assisi. According to Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Atlanta, the new pope lives in a “simple and non-threatening way,” able to relate to the common person and converse on a level of familiarity with him.
It may have been from this heart of familiarity with common man and the challenges that the modern person often faces that Cardinal Bergoglio commented on the plight of unwed mothers in Argentina. Less than a year ago, he made the following comments to his priests:
In our ecclesiastical region there are priests who don’t baptize the children of single mothers because they weren’t conceived in the sanctity of marriage. These are today’s hypocrites… Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it’s baptized!
Truly, the life movement can expect great things from a Holy Father who holds the unborn and their mothers so very close to his heart.
So the Catholic Church now considers the baptism of children born out of wedlock to be some sort of reward, for not aborting the pregnancy???
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for people taking responsibility for the “pro-choices” they make, when it comes to “choosing” to have unprotected sex, etc etc etc...That’s a start I suppose...
Oh well...I guess we’ll see how well this all works out...
Great but will he battle socialism with the same intensity?
If he is soft on socialism, onboard with social justice and against free market economics his stand on abortion and sexual choice is moot.
FWIW if a socialist promised to outlaw abortion that would not sway me. Socialists promise much but deliver not.
...baptism of children born out of wedlock...
These, are the Innocents.
Baptism’s not a “reward” for anything. It entirely has to do with the child, not the parents.
It is called not blaming the child for the sins of the parent.
After all the child may grow up to be better than the parents if encouraged by the church to do so.
Sure, I can dig that...It’s not their fault...
Baptism, in scripture, as promoted by Christ and the Apostles, is clearly an individual choice made by persons who understand what they are doing... not a reward, but an act of faith.
You don't seem to be getting it.
Well consider my upbringing and faith to understand that baptism is an acceptance of Christ as your savior, and that he died for your sins, your cognative acceptance of that fact is your ticket to eternity with him...
That’s why I have always wondered about the baptism of newborns...I believe you have to personally understand and accept the necessity of that act to recieve that blessing...
IIRC, children are saved, to a certain point, where baptism would be needed for the life you live after the learning of that lesson...
But that is just what I recall from my teachings...Obviously different from Catholisism, and other sacrament religious faiths...
Not trying to spark a debate on the differences of the faiths...
Many believe that we are in a spiritual war against an adversary that does not discriminate based on age. We seek protection, through baptism, for our children from Satan and all of his forces.
We may not fully understand this conflict, but we believe it exists, and that we are a part of it.
The choice one makes down the road, within the Catholic and many if not all of the protestant churches is referred to as Confirmation. It’s the confirmation of the vows made in baptism, when we had no choice.
IIRC, children are saved, to a certain point, where baptism would be needed for the life you live after the learning of that lesson...
I have always been with you on this point too. As a non-Catholic, I have always been hesitant about this issue.
BUT, having been a student of the Scriptures for more than 40 years, I realize that the more I learn, the less I know.
From my studies, I have been fascinated by the Typological aspect of the Bible. e,g,, Baptism, as we know it, was first manifest by the Israelites passing through the divided waters of the Dead Sea (or, Reed Sea). The Israelites were, in effect, being Baptised by this miracle. It was a precursor of the Baptism rite as practiced by John the Baptist and, later, the Christian Church.
Other Old Testament miracles and events are then made manifest in the life of Christ. The Pascal Lamb, for example.
Anyway, many things which the Catholic Church practices had always been a stumbling block for me. The Virgin Mary, the Saints etc., etc.
I now know, that I just don’t know. But, I have been able to accept these things based upon the admonition that, to paraphrase, “that which you bind up on earth, shall be bound up in Heaven...”
And parents make the decision on behalf of their children to have them baptized. Thank God for that. We make the decision to bring them to the doctor or should we wait for our 3 month old to tell us to bring them to the doctor.
I seem to recall in scripture that many “households” would be baptized at the same time. I’m sure there were children in those households.
Sure. I understand the point of view. :-)
I believe you have the posture and sequence correct, at least as to my life. Can’t say I always in later life deserved/earned what was given to me.
What happens to unbaptized children who die before the age of reason?
“Jesus loves the little children of the world...Red or Yellow, Black or White...They are precious in his sight...”
So what that tells me he sees all, watches all, and wants them, at their time of choosing, and understanding, to accept him as their savior...
The ritual of baptism is simply accepting that fact, there is no set time for that to happen...
The age of reason is simply a point in one’s life that you are exposed to the word of God, have a good understanding of what he wishes for you in that life...It is a never ending learning experience, no one knows it all...Some kids get it earlier in life, some, it takes a while...It depends on the upbringing and level of exposure to the word of God...
I believe kids souls are protected to a certain point, and a decision has to be made, or not...No one can realistically (biblically) make that decision for them...Sometimes I get the feeling that infant baptisms are there to make the rest of us adults feel better in some cases...
That’s just the way I see it...
That’s fine, except what you quoted isn’t scripture.
“Jesus loves the little children of the world...Red or Yellow, Black or White...They are precious in his sight”.
What *is* scriptural is that Jesus says, “let the little children come to me and do not hinder them”.
Um, no. The Catholic Church doesn't believe that the innocent child should be denied baptism because of the circumstances of his or her birth.
The parents bring the child for this first Sacrament of Initiation, and it is THEY who pledge to raise the child in the faith. At Confirmation, the child, now older, chooses freely to accept the final Sacrament of Initiation, and become an adult in the faith.
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