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Why Be a Liberal Catholic When You Could Be an Anglican?
The Guardian (UK) ^ | 3/12/13 | Theo Hobson

Posted on 03/12/2013 7:47:33 PM PDT by marshmallow

Catholics may not believe in all the Roman church stands for yet are still seduced by its all-encompassing culture and ritual

What's the appeal of Roman Catholicism to a fairly liberal person? Why don't they jump ship? They say they dislike clerical celibacy, which they largely blame for the abuse scandals. Well, there's a church close at hand that rejects it. They say they want to see the ordination of women. Well, there's a church close at hand that ordains women (more or less). They say they dislike the church's intransigence on homosexuality. Well, there's a church close at hand that has an honest, messy debate about this issue. They say they dislike the church's legalistic approach to birth control, abortion, and various other moral issues. Well, there's a church close at hand that rejects such an approach. They say they dislike the church's authoritarian structure, the monarchical aura of the papacy. Well, you know what.

Why do they stay in a church that is so full of things they dislike, when there is one close at hand that is more or less free of those objectionable things? Presumably they would reply: because, despite everything, the Roman church seems to us the authentic church, and the Anglican church does not. But there is a sector of Anglicanism whose style of worship is scarcely distinguishable from that of Roman Catholicism. Yes, they might reply, but the institution lacks authenticity: it was founded by a randy monarch, and remains confined by its national character. Fair point perhaps, but does it really outweigh the benefits of Anglicanism to a liberal believer? Is this really a reason to stay in an authoritarian, illiberal church – that at least it wasn't founded by Henry VIII? The man had his faults but he wasn't Satan.

So what's.......

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/12/2013 7:47:33 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
Anglican? Naaahhhh.I'm thinking more along the lines of Unitarian/Universalist.
2 posted on 03/12/2013 7:50:11 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("Progressives" toss the word "racist" around like chimps toss their feces)
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To: marshmallow

I once asked that question of a professor of theology I had, a woman who really, really, really wanted to be a priest. Her response was, “I love the Church.”

I almost laughed right out loud at that as I had spent the semester questioning everything she said as being false teaching and against Catholic theology.

I think there is a tremendous need in those people to be right, more right than the Church along the lines of those who are “more Catholic than the pope.”


3 posted on 03/12/2013 7:55:52 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
Liberals want the Church on their own terms. However, they forget that the Church belongs to Christ.

They have no right to fashion something in their own image.

4 posted on 03/12/2013 8:06:44 PM PDT by Slyfox (Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness -G Wash.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I find it mildly hysterical that all the conservative Anglicans are swimming over the Tiber to Rome but liberal Catholics are staying put-—WHY-—because the feel that if they stay, they eventually break the back of a traditional mindset—CHANGE FROM WITHIN is their tactic.


5 posted on 03/12/2013 8:09:47 PM PDT by brooklyn dave (1st commandment THOU SHALT NOT BELIEVE THY GOVERNMENT)
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To: Slyfox

Yes, they want to form Christ to themselves rather than form themselves to Christ.


6 posted on 03/12/2013 8:16:02 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: marshmallow

I grew up as an Episcopalian, at that time as close to Anglican as one could get.
In my earlier days, the episcopal church in America was as fine as one could get.
In my later years I became the senior warden of the oldest (1832) episcopal church in west Tennessee.
Later came the gays to take over not only my church, but the entire ECUSA, and destroy it.

Now in the Philippines, I have no option but to align with the RC church. The central Catholic church in my town is older then America.
No doubt, many former Episcopalians have moved to the Catholic or Anglican church.
Unfortunately, it may be only a short time before the Anglican church becomes infected.


7 posted on 03/12/2013 8:16:25 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: Jvette

Your post made me laugh. I had the same experience with a theology professor (a priest) who had a man-crush on Hans Kung.
I battled the guy for a semester. In the end, I figured that he just didn’t like anything about the Council of Trent and it was his belief that the Cliff Notes version of the Vatican II Council would be, “forget everything after the Last Supper, we’re starting over.”
Worked my tail off...got a B. Next semester took another theology with a “nun” from the same school of thought. I told her what she wanted to hear, didn’t do a lick of work...got an A.
Higher Ed...go figure.


8 posted on 03/12/2013 8:27:32 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: AlexW

I’m RC. When I was younger I went to an Episcopalian service with a friend. I thought it was one of the most beautiful and elegant forms of worship I had ever seen.


9 posted on 03/12/2013 8:32:21 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

I got an A in her course, which surprised me, but she admitted that she enjoyed the back and forth of our discussions.


10 posted on 03/12/2013 8:33:56 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

” I thought it was one of the most beautiful and elegant forms of worship I had ever seen.”
______________________________________________

Yes, a ECUSA service anywhere in the country was elegant.
There were, however, two types of churches in the ECUSA.
Some we called “high church”....more like Catholic, with incense and other traditions associated with Catholics.
Unfortunately , the gays and perverts also recognized that.
As my brother says, it is one of many parts of America that has “Gone with the wind”.


11 posted on 03/12/2013 8:42:21 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: AlexW

The Anglicans are doing quite well, at least the majority in Africa, that hold to very traditional moral views, and now shun both the British Anglicans and the American Episcopalians.

Conservative Episcopalians in the US have been taking their churches out of their liberal dioceses and becoming African Missionary churches, which is perfect timing, because they now send wealth to Africa, where it is needed to build a huge number of churches right now, to handle all the formerly Muslim converts. Islam is hemorrhaging in black Africa.

Some of the conservative African Anglican bishops and archbishops have so many in their dioceses that they are effectively princes. Not leftist blowhards like Desmond Tutu, but profoundly conservative and moral people.


12 posted on 03/12/2013 8:46:36 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

I went to an Episcopalian mass back in the 1990s. It was very good and reminded me of Catholic mass when I was a very little girl in the 60s. In particular, I remember that they responded “and with your spirit”, instead of the post-Vatican II phrase “and also with you”. Now, of course, Catholics have gone back to “and with your spirit”.


13 posted on 03/12/2013 8:53:28 PM PDT by married21
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To: Jvette

What I find strange about women who want to be priests is that they think that their role as women of the Church is somehow lessened by not being priests. That is false. Women have a distinct role in the Church and that is equal in respect to men, yet not the same. Who were the first to see the empty tomb? Women. They never left the foot of His cross, while His apostles did — women bring a uniqueness to the Church by being women. Men do that by being men.


14 posted on 03/12/2013 8:55:37 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

“The Anglicans are doing quite well, at least the majority in Africa,”
______________________________________________

Yes, I have heard about the African Anglicans, and I am aware that some former US Episcopal churches have affiliated with the African Anglicans.
It is possible that the old British Anglicans may be falling from grace, just as the ECUSA.

My disclaimer...I have been out of the USSA for twelve years
and no longer keep up with what is happening with the church there.


15 posted on 03/12/2013 8:56:11 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: brooklyn dave

won’t work. hasn’t worked for 2000 years, won’t work, thanks to the Holy Spirit.


16 posted on 03/12/2013 8:56:16 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: marshmallow; NYer; Jvette
from the article This is something that no form of non-Catholicism offers: the sense of a whole culture joining together in religious ritual.
17 posted on 03/12/2013 8:56:32 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: marshmallow

As the Catholic church created the Anglican Ordinariates, for Anglicans to become Catholic; perhaps it is time for them to also create a Catholic Ordinariates, recognizing that many who call themselves Catholic are not, and in truth do not wish to be.

As nations accept immigrants, most of them also permit the renunciation of citizenship to those who are not compatible and wish to go. It is an orderly process and a thorough one.

In this case it could be as easy as a questionnaire. Ask them to fill out a form to determine if they are Catholic, and wish to remain so. As often the case may be that they are not, and stay only out of inertia; that they may have another faith, or no faith at all.

It would help the church considerably, certainly the clergy and the laity, to know that those beside them in church are there out of faith and hope, and that their hearts are in it as well.


18 posted on 03/12/2013 9:00:02 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: married21

And we’re using “consubstantial with’”...now there’s a term you don’t just through around every day. Funny how words do matter ;-)


19 posted on 03/12/2013 9:03:25 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: Slyfox
"Liberals want the Church on their own terms. However, they forget that the Church belongs to Christ. They have no right to fashion something in their own image."
20 posted on 03/12/2013 9:51:42 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: Beowulf9

And now his monarchial descendant, the present head of the Anglican church, has signed on with the gays.


21 posted on 03/12/2013 10:05:47 PM PDT by Slyfox (Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness -G Wash.)
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To: marshmallow

“Why Be a Liberal Catholic When You Could Be an Anglican?”

Excellent question.


22 posted on 03/12/2013 10:25:24 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

Ronald Knox, after he converted, said that what he most missed was the liturgy of trhe prayer book. After the new mass was introduced, I once asked a priest why they just didn’t use the prayerbook and modify its language to fit Catholic teaching. He looked at me strangely. Pope Benedict managed to eliminate some of the banality of the English translation of the New Mass and, ironically, to extend the use of the “Anglican useage” by opening the Church to Anglicans wanting to come it. But even the Prayer Book has been robbed of much of its dignity by reforms of its language.


23 posted on 03/12/2013 10:55:01 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: ReformationFan

John Cogley, the editor of “Commonweal,” back in the ‘60s, joined the Episcopal Church after Paul VI issued Humanae Vitae. I respected him for that. Too bad the rest of the crew didn’t follow him. But they wanted to play dog in the manger.


24 posted on 03/12/2013 10:57:52 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: marshmallow

protestants are simply those who will not submit in obedience to a legitimate authority. they will, instead, concoct their own “truth” of which there will be a version for everyone who does the concocting. there cannot be one million versions of the truth now can there? either truth is one or it is nothing. anglicans change the “truth” along with their underwear.


25 posted on 03/12/2013 11:52:45 PM PDT by veritas2002
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To: AlexW

I grew up in the DC area and attended a wonderful Episcopalian church. We had a Children’s Choir (not jr choir) that rehearsed every Saturday morning from 9:00 am until noon. Mrs Adams was very demanding and expected nothing less than perfection. It was a thriving traditional family church. Now I belong to a local very small conservative Anglican congregation.


26 posted on 03/13/2013 12:17:23 AM PDT by ArmyTeach ( Videteco eos prius (See 'em first) Sculpin 191)
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To: marshmallow
Money. Liberal Progressive Heretics are generally found
somewhere in the Church bureaucracy pulling a paycheck. They
probably could not find this paycheck in another church.
27 posted on 03/13/2013 12:21:16 AM PDT by jobim (.)
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To: RobbyS

I think the Divine Office, in the form of “Christian Prayer” is quite similar to the prayer book.. Mostly the same structure, same psalms. I wonder if he was talking about some of the specific prayers or..

BTW, speaking of Knox, I recommend the book “Second Friends” to anyone who hasn’t read it...


28 posted on 03/13/2013 3:11:42 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: veritas2002

“protestants are simply those who will not submit in obedience to a legitimate authority”

As it turns out this describes a good portion of Catholics. So there you have it. tit for tat.


29 posted on 03/13/2013 3:25:56 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

you miss the point...catholics who are not obedient to Church teaching are protestants


30 posted on 03/13/2013 5:07:08 AM PDT by veritas2002
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To: veritas2002

They have to bring their own snakes. We can’t be sharing ours.


31 posted on 03/13/2013 9:07:36 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: D-fendr

No, he was talking about the Book of Common Prayer, originally the work of Archbishop Cranmer, a heretic but a master of the language. People may sentimentalize about the Latin mass, but most low masses were pretty dreary affairs. He knew he had got the better part, but he still felt the loss. He was, I think, the son of a bishop.


32 posted on 03/13/2013 10:42:12 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Cronos

It just goes to prove the emptiness of the woman’s liberation movement. Rather than affirm the beauty of being a woman that is a complement to man, they must reject all that makes them woman in an attempt to be like man.

Chesterton said something to the effect that he can’t understand why women who claim women are equal to or as good as men, then spend all their lives trying to be like men.


33 posted on 03/13/2013 4:39:06 PM PDT by Jvette
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