Regarding my bible translation I happened to grab a near at hand copy of the Confraternity Bible. As a comparison though the RSV says: "So out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them" and this also seems to indicate the order I believe is otherwise obvious. The NIV has "now out of the ground" while the AV has "And out of the ground." I don't really think any of these differ for the reasons I have given above. The obvious meaning, given the words of the Lord in verse 18, is that man was created and then the animals. It really does seem impossible to avoid that understanding without ripping the clear intent of scripture out at the roots.
re: “Those are interesting points, but I think it still requires some contortionist types of reading.”
I don’t think I’m contorting the passage at all. Genesis 1 clearly has plants and animals created before man. Genesis 2 does NOT specifically contradict that order.
“18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.” (NIV)
You seem to think that because after the passage mentions that God wanted a suitable/compatible creature for Adam, and it mentions God bringing the animals to him to name - you think that means an order of creation (man, then animals), but as it says, “Now the Lord God HAD formed out of the ground all the wild animals” - this means the animals were created earlier, prior to Adam, then God later brought to animals to him to name. There is no apparent contradiction.
As I demonstrated previously, things are not always mentioned in chronological order in this chapter. The NIV isn’t the only translation to use “had formed” (clearly past tense). Some of the other translations don’t always say “had”, but it is implied from the whole passage.
Actually, verse 18 is a set-up to the need for someone who was totally compatible with Adam - the animals clearly weren’t, so God made Woman from Man. That’s the point of this passage. Chapter 2 is a summary of the creation account and also gives more details on some of the creation events, but not necessarily in chronological order.
By the way, cothrige, I want to thank you for the cordial discourse we are having. It’s so nice to discuss these things without a lot of drama.
I was just thinking about what you were saying, and in your defense, if there were no chapter 1 of Genesis, if all we had was chapter 2, looking at some English translations, it could appear that man was created before the animals. This is because some translations render the passage in simple past tense, “God formed” rather than as a plu-perfect, “God had formed”.
According to Biblical language scholars (I am not one of those), either translation is permissible, but both assume that animals were created prior to man based on the information in Chapter 1. The simple meaning of verse 19 is, “God brought to Adam the beasts which He had formed”, or in other words, the animals were already around, it is just that NOW God brought them to the man for him to name. This explanation is from two highly respected Biblical language authors (see Keil, C.F. and F. Delitzsch (1996), Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament (Electronic Database: Biblesoft).
Again, chapter 1 gives a chronological order of creation (stars, sun, moon, animals, then man/woman etc.) while Chapter 2 is only giving somewhat of a recap, plus some added detail in regard to man being placed in the garden, and that man needed a compatible companion – woman.