Whatever one may think of Israel and Zionism, most Jews (observant and non-observant) believe in defending the right of Jews to live in peace on the land God promised them.
Oh-oh.
So are you Neturei Karta, Iranian, or some sort of replacement theologian?
Also, in reality:
1. Jewish people in the USA are barely supporters of Israel. This was evidenced by the last election. Those that are Zionist are in Israel.
2. As an Orthodox Jewish man myself, as well as a sabra-Israeli, you would find that the influence of the atheist types waning and the religious growing in Israel. Indeed, even among the non-observant, just being in Israel, and among other Jewish people makes them slowly-but-surely observant.
3. The Deformed do not speak for Judaism and are a waning influence, even in the USA. They’ll be Episcopalians in a generation. They have a loud voice because they are useful idiots for the Democrat Party, and thus propped up by state media.
what is your point? This type of differential slander has been around for at least 120 years. How special to say that it is the ‘Zionists’ who want their own land....real Jews are happy where they are. These voices in the Jewish community walked their followers to death at the hands of the Nazis. How lucky for the Germans to only have to deal with the Jews and not the Zionists.....geeeez.
There is no Jewish state in the land of Israel without Zionism. There is no other definition for that term. Anyone who claims otherwise is echoing Helen Thomas.
In a war between the civilized man and the savage, defend the civilized man.
I was hoping someone would actually read the
article so we could have a good discussion.
Nothing in either article (that I noticed) speaks
of Jews giving up their land as a Judaic litmus.
(sigh)
Without Zionism there can be no Judaism. Just ask the Jews of Poland. Oh, never mind, you can’t, because what was Europe’s largest Jewish population was exterminated.
Without Zionism there can be no Judaism. Just ask the Jews of Poland. Oh, never mind, you can’t, because what was Europe’s largest Jewish population was exterminated.
If Zionism means that Jews have an absolute God-given right to the Holy Land, then I’m pro Zionist. The bastardized Palestinians have no right to land given to the Jews.
Charedi ("ultra-Orthodox") Jews are "anti-Zionist" in that they reject Zionism as a modern, secular European nationalist movement that sought to create an ethnically Jewish but modern European-style state in the Holy Land. However, they still believe that one day Mashiach will come, gather all Jews to 'Eretz Yisra'el, and reinstitute the Kingdom of David.
Most non-Jewish anti-Zionists interpret "Zionism" as something completely different--a "plot to rule the world." Anti-Semitic gentiles often invoke anti-Zionist Charedim in their own war against "Jewish world rule." However, even the most anti-Zionist Charedim still believe in "Jewish world rule" in the sense of the Kingdom of G-d on earth, with its capital in Jerusalem. Thus anti-Zionist gentiles who believe "anti-Zionist" Charedim are opposed to the alleged "Jewish plot to rule the world" are making fools of themselves, in two ways: 1)Zionism is not a "plot to rule the world" but a mere secular nationalist movement, and 2)all Orthodox Jews, including the Charedim, believe Mashiach will rule the world.
Let's hope we've seen the last of this idiocy at FR (but something tells me we should know better).
Flat out garbage! Genesis has Hashem saying to the Jews to leave the land of their birth and go to the land I will show you (Judea). Zionism is based in the Jewish religion.
Oh well -- and I never get to write this -- IBTZ!
Modern political Zionism is based on the hope that Jews do not need Judaism to survive as Jews, something that is impossible long-term.
Religious Jews respond to the secular State of Israel basically in one of three ways:
1) The State of Israel is the precursor to the Messianic Age and should be supported wholeheartedly.
2) The State of Israel does not *necessarily* have any messianic implications, but it is a place of refuge for persecuted Jews and home to almost half the Jews in the world and deserves support for those reasons.
3) The State of Israel is just another nation under non-Jewish sovereignty, but the Land of Israel is still holy and it is meritorious to live there regardless of the sinful nature of its government, which does not merit support.
While it is difficult to begrudge a homeland, obtaining it by any and all means goes against the fundamental tenets of Judaism.
“Give it to us now or we will take it by force”
I appreciate Rabbi Teitelbaum taking time off from protecting pedophiles long enough to remind us that he is a senile twit who will commit additional desercrations of Judaism like lying about Zionists. In the real world, Zionists and anti-Zionists alike tried to negotiate with the Nazis to save as many Jews as possible.
Jo Nuvark, you aren't a Jew and you have no idea what you are playing with.
Bookmark for later.
As for Israel..it has changed hands so many times that it belongs to the people of the earth.
As to my small inheritance, I give my portion to those who call themselves Jews. Those who have been denied a secure place throughout history.
May they live in their "home"in peace, no matter if they choose that home to be Israel or wherever they may be, until that day when we all inherit the entire planet through grace.
If this way of thinking is Zionism..then I am guilty.
Any other way is pure greed or manipulation to cause strife, IMHO. But, of course, no one ever listens to me. So the games will continue and the hate will abound. What's new?
Pray for the heart of humanity.
What is the difference between anti-semitism and anti-zionism?
Anti-Semitism is a hatred, revulsion, or denigration of Jewish people and a belief that those people are somehow (by dint of their genetics) more violent, conniving, mischievous, and dastardly than other people. In some cases, like the Nazis or Extremist Muslims, they are considered a “sub-human” race, on par with monkeys. Almost all Anti-Semites are not Jews for the simple reason that no person would willingly consider himself a putrid thing.
Anti-Zionism is a rejection of Zionism. Zionism is merely Jewish Nationalism, the belief that Jews have a right to have their own country where they can determine their own future. Zionists can be both Jews and non-Jews and Anti-Zionists can be both Jews and non-Jews, because the question of whether the Jews have a right to a state is a political question. Since the Jews were able to create such a country, Israel, Anti-Zionism is usually seen as Anti-Israel sentiment.
It is important to note that there are those who wish to argue that Anti-Semitism does not apply exclusively to Jews (since there are non-Jewish Semites), but the term Anti-Semite has never been used to describe anything but Jew-hatred. Additionally, people like to claim that Zionism is a code word for an international cabal of evil Jews trying to control the world. Aside from the fact that such a cabal does not exist, such a thing would fall under Anti-Semitism, not Zionism or Anti-Zionism since this cabal would not be concerned with Jewish Nationalism.
Antisemitic conspiracy theories
Antisemitism has, from the Middle Ages, frequently taken on characteristics of conspiracy theory. Antisemitic canards continue to circulate. In medieval Europe it was widely believed that Jews poisoned wells, had killed Jesus, and consumed the blood of Christians in their rituals.
In the second half of the 19th century conspiracists claimed that Jews and/or Freemasons were plotting to establish control over the world. The most famous text alleging the existence of this Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory is The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. A more modern manifestation of such ideas is the myth of a Zionist Occupation Government.
Various conspiracy theories have been advanced regarding Jews and banking,including the myth that world banking is dominated by the Rothschild family,that Jews control Wall Street, and that Jews control the U.S. Federal Reserve System. A related idea is that Jews control Hollywood or the news media.
Most Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples, and to justify the creation of the State of Israel. For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic conspiracy theory.
International Jewish conspiracy
The existence of an international Jewish conspiracy is an anti-Semitic canard which regularly features in various racist conspiracy theories.
The blood libel, or conspiratorial slur that Jews murder gentile babies to use their blood in the preparation of Passover matzos, goes back to antiquity.
In medieval Europe, outbreaks of disease were commonly blamed on Jews poisoning wells, which led to pogroms, murders, and the Jews being forced by the governing authorities to live in segregated areas of cities called ghettos.
It was only in modern times that the Catholic Church stopped assigning blame to the Jews for their purported deicide of Jesus Christ. In medieval Europe, Jews were accused of re-enacting Jesus’s crucifixion and death by stabbing or mutilating the host, which Catholics believe are transubstantiated into the body of Christ.
In 1934, an American pro-Nazi magazine published the claim that Benjamin Franklin delivered an anti-Semitic speech at the 1787 Constitutional Convention urging that Jews not be admitted to the United States.[1] Franklin’s purported rationale included that Jews: refuse to assimilate wherever they move, are vampires who must live among Christians, will attempt to financially strangle the country, will stream into the United States in such numbers that they will take over and rule the country. Franklin’s so-called prophecy was allegedly recorded in a “private diary” of Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention delegate from South Carolina, that is now in the possession of the Franklin Institute. The Anti-Defamation League exposed the fraud in 1954, yet references to the “prophecy” still persist on neo-Nazi messageboards and on usenet.
Similar anti-Semitic sentiments have been falsely ascribed to George Washington.
Modern anti-Semitic conspiracy theories depicting an elaborate secret hierarchy of controlling Jewish influences largely take their cue from The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, a 1903 tract purporting to be the manual of a Jewish secret society planning world domination. It was widely circulated in the early twentieth century and exposed as a fraud as early as 1921.
Automobile manufacturer Henry Ford further popularized the conspiracy during the 1920s by publishing the Protocols and anti-Semitic articles in his newspaper, The Dearborn Independent, and distributing hundreds of thousands of copies of the Protocols. Ford’s anti-Semitic articles were later collected and published as a four-volume treatise entitled The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem.
Ford’s enthusiastic endorsement of an international Jewish conspiracy proved extremely popular in Weimar-era Germany. Ford provided substantial financial backing to Hitler in the 1920’s and his writings were a significant influence on the formation of the Nazi party and its grassroots support. By 1933, when the Nazi Party came to power in Germany, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was standard reading in German schools. Adolf Hitler admired Henry Ford and even emulated him by creating his own automobile, the Volkswagen. Hitler further propagated the Jewish conspiracy myth in Mein Kampf and other Nazi propaganda blaming Jews for the rise of both communism and rampant capitalism, and for Germany’s economic decline following the First World War.
Spanish fascist dictator Francisco Franco similarly believed in a conspiracy of Jews, Freemasons and communists intending to establish a world government. He often made reference to a vast “Judeo-Masonic conspiracy.”
After the fall of Nazi Germany, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, along with anti-Semitism itself, have become increasingly marginalized. However, the myth of an international Jewish conspiracy remains common among right-wing conspiracy theorists, Neo-Nazis, black supremacists and other racist lunatics, and has been further perpetuated in recent years by these lunatics’ rantings on the internet.
This canard is also common in parts of the Islamic world, especially among Palestinian resistance movements. For example, the founding charter of Hamas asserts the existence of a Zionist conspiracy, working internationally through secret organizations such as the Freemasons as well as the government of Israel, and cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as the embodiment of their plans.
Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists often focus on Zionism and the founding of Israel, or on denying the existent or scale of the Holocaust and claiming it is a myth fabricated or exaggerated to serve Jewish interests. Believers in an international conspiracy often claim that Jews are secretly running the United States government in collaboration with Israel. They point to examples of wealthy Jews in the financial sector and other industries (the Rothschild family regularly appears in these theories), and to the apparently disproportionate numbers of Jews involved in the movie industry in Hollywood.
If it is even true that Jews are disproportionately represented in business, one must be careful to note that correlation does not equal causation. In the Western World until the 19th Century, the largely Christian populations obeyed a religiously motivated prohibition on charging interest on loans, with the role of banker historically falling on Jewish businessmen who were sometimes even specifically licensed by sovereigns to charge interest. To assume that the disproportionate number of Jews involved in finance proves they’re engaging in a Zionist conspiracy through manipulation of capitalism is to ignore the historic role of Jews in banking due to the Christian prohibition against usury.
Individual theories vary widely. Many claim that “international Jewry” is in control of the Freemasons, Illuminati, and other real or perceived secret societies. Often the international Jewish conspiracy is portrayed as an active part of, or the major power behind, that greatest of all conspiracies, the New World Order.
Various anti-Semitic 9/11 conspiracy theories sprang up in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks claiming that a Jewish or Israeli conspiracy was behind the attacks, or that the whole incident was faked in order to serve Jewish and Zionist interests. A common myth, spread by racist websites and chain emails, is that hundreds or even thousands of Jewish employees in the World Trade Center were forewarned of the attacks missed work on September 11th 2001.
Variations on these conspiracies that may not appear overtly anti-Semitic often have a latent anti-Semitism about them as the words “Illuminati,” “New World Order,” “international bankers,” and “financiers” are Mad Libbed in for “Jews” and “international Jewry.”
‘The Jewish
Banker Conspiracy’
Understanding Anti-Semitism
By Henry Makow PhD
Just mention the “Jewish Banker Conspiracy” and you’ll be as popular as a skunk at a garden party. Tolerant sophisticated people dismiss this concept as a hateful and tired cliche. They believe “anti-Semites” should be slandered, sent to jail and lose their livelihood.
But what if there actually *were* a “Jewish Banker Conspiracy?” Then these sophisticates would have egg on their face, wouldn’t they? They’d be exposed as rubes, victims of a stereotypical Jewish deception achieved by mass media coincidentally owned by these very same bankers.
The “Jewish Banker Conspiracy” is *not* a chimera. It is the plan of Rothschild-controlled central bankers to create a totalitarian system to protect their illegal private monopoly of the world’s credit. They print government currency for the price of the paper and then lend it to the government with interest.
In the words of Bill Clinton’s mentor, Georgetown University professor Carol Quigley, who was an insider, the plan is “nothing less than to establish a world system... able to dominate the political system of each country.” They plan to control the whole system in “a feudalistic manner by the central banks of the world working in concert (and) by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences.” (’Tragedy and Hope’, p. 324)
The central banking families and their allies used their unfair advantage to gain a monopoly on the world’s wealth and a stranglehold on culture and politics. To make us accept their “New World Order,” (a.k.a. globalization) they need to divide and degrade humanity by destroying the four pillars of our personal identity and social cohesion: nation, race, religion and family.
They sponsor Communism, Zionism, Socialism, Neo Conservatism, Liberalism, Feminism, Multiculturalism and “Diversity” to achieve this purpose. (Socialism substitutes government for family.) They sponsor terrorism (incl. 9-11), revolutions, wars and depressions and may be planning another world war.
Anti-Semitism is caused because Jewish idealists, opportunists and dupes play a prominent role in the above movements, especially Communism. As the New World Order becomes more onerous, anti-Semitism will inevitably increase. Jews need to acknowledge this rather than pretend “anti-Semites” are hallucinating. On the other hand, “anti-Semites” need to stop generalizing. Jews are very far from being cohesive.
Jews are fleeing Jewish organizations in droves. According to a 2001 survey, 25% of the roughly 5 million American Jews identify with another faith. Another quarter are “secular” leaving just 51% to say they are Jewish by religion. One half of all Jews intermarry and three-quarters of these raise their children in another religion.
The majority of Jews probably would oppose the banker agenda if they understood it. I was heartened to hear Texe Marrs say recently that only 5% of Jews are aware of the big picture. Yet the other 95% may suffer if they continue to be indifferent to what is happening.
THE BIG PICTURE
Many “anti-Semites” like Texe Marrs and Des Griffin believe that the Jewish Pharisees accepted the offer from Satan that Jesus rejected: “I will give you the Kingdom of the World (i.e. Money, Power) if you obey me.” They believe Talmudic Judaism is dedicated to enthroning Lucifer and always has conspired to destroy Christianity. The recent treatment of Christmas is proof that they are not hallucinating.
I am just beginning this immense study and shouldn’t be mistaken for an expert. My present hypothesis is that enthroning Satan/Lucifer really means enthroning man in the role of God. This is called Illuminism. (Hence, the “Enlightenment.”)
God is rejected. God represents the natural development of mankind through adherence to spiritual absolutes like morality, justice and truth.
A strong element in Talmudic Judaism restricts the definition of “man” to Jews. Thus, the course of human history can be seen as the replacement of God with man, and “man” with Jews (or man becomes Jewish.) Everything we call “modern” speaks to the banishment of God from the universe and the attempt to fill the void with the utterances of men/Jews/illuminists. That’s why so much of modern culture is a fraud.
Israel Shamir has suggested that the Jewish Holocaust is being used to deify Jews. The holocaust replaces the crucifixion as a sacred symbol of God-sacrifice. The Holocaust Museums are the temples.
Those Jews who welcome this scenario might be in for a rude awakening. The definition of Jewish is blurred. As I have suggested elsewhere, the central bankers have forged alliances based on money, marriage and cabalistic Freemasonry with the leading families of Europe and America.
When gold is God, the extremely rich are the “Chosen People.” This myth, together with the Talmudic and Cabalistic traditions, is a perfect mechanism for elite totalitarian control. According to Israel Shahak, Talmudic Judaism has always provided a model for a closed oppressive society.
“Zionism is but an incident of a far reaching plan,” said leading American Zionist Louis Marshall, counsel for bankers Kuhn Loeb in 1917. “It is merely a convenient peg on which to hang a powerful weapon.”
In other words, the whole Jewish enterprise, Judaism etc. may be a “powerful weapon” to enthrone a rule of the super rich, who are “Jewish” mainly by virtue of wealth. But the average Jew will take the flack in the form of anti-Semitism.
For example, the British royal family sees itself as descending from the House of David. A Jewish Mohel circumcised Prince Charles. Are the Windsor’s Jewish? (Douglas Reed, Somewhere South of Suez, p.356.)
Henry Kissinger once said, “a people who have been persecuted for 2000 years must be doing something wrong.” His unsympathetic attitude may reflect that of his employers, the Illuminati bankers.
What could Jews be doing wrong?
Answer: Trusting their “leaders.”