[flaglady47]

Sorry for not being politically correct here, but I don’t want an African Pope. The tradition of the church is not, nor ever has been, in Africa. It is a Western world religion, not an African or South American continent religion. There are no historical roots in Africa. And not that much in South America. And none in the Orient either. I want a traditional Western World Pope. My favorite pick would be Cdl Ouellet (Canadian), as he is a multiple linguist, is very traditional on the matters that count most, abortion, gay marriage, the basic principles of the Church’s teachings. I pin my hopes on him as being the best of the potential lot. This politically correct thought has got to end.

Otherwise, here is the political version of what is now going on with the Pope: the next President of the United States has to be a woman, and thus Hilllary Clinton should be the nominee after the first black President’s term is over. Do you really want that? I don’t think so. Get out of the mindset of political correctness. In today’s world we can’t afford to have a politically correct Pope dealing with international affairs. No way.

[BipolarBob]

Doesn’t Gods Spirit transcend racial, national and geographical boundaries? I think you place God in a small box of your own construct to make a statement like that.

[Mach9]

In a sense, I’m almost in agreement. Western Civ became what it was in Europe. I’d love to see Europe return to that era. But it doesn’t look at all likely. Europe has come close to demolishing Christianity in the last century, and it’s highly unlikely, given the influx of Islamic immigrants, that it will ever return to that golden age.

Right now, the old church flourishes in unEuropeanized (sorry about the word) countries. Africa’s dioceses conform more to the culture and tradition, never mind the dogma, of the old European church than Europe does. But it’s not just that. The Church is universal. What there is about the Roman Catholic Church that makes it unique isn’t the surrounding secular culture. It’s the essence of the Church, the same essence that transformed Europe and the lack of which will transform it again.

Don’t worry about an African pope (or a South American, or a Chinese, or an Aleutian pope). Who cares? The choice is not ours or even the cardinals’, it’s the Holy Ghost’s. (I’m not PC either.)

[GSD Lover]

Really? You don’t want a bishop from Africa? If I wanted a nationalist religion, I’d become an anglican, and what you’re asking for is just anglicanism on a bigger scale.

The RCC consists of the worldwide communion. Nothing less.

Besides, the African leadership is some of the most conservative in the church. Their seminaries are filled, while ours are empty.

[Cronos]

I'm sorry flaglady, but the tradition of the Church (as I showed in my excerpts above) are not restricted to one continent

Christianity is a world religion, in origin definitely NOT western -- we are an Eastern religion, well, Middle-Eastern

I'm Catholic btw, and the Church is, well, Catholic -- which the Western Patriarich (the Bishop of Rome) is the first among equals, there are equals as the Patriarchs of the Catholic Chaldean Church, the Maronite Catholic etc.

As part of the wider Catholic Church we see that the European component is, just a component

Non-Catholic westerners like Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Baptists etc. make the same mistake many of us Catholics make in just seeing Christianity through the prism of Europe

This is incorrect -- the first Christian nations were in Asia -- Armenia or Georgia OR in Africa (Ethiopia)

Some of the greatest fathers of the Church were from Africa - St. Augustine of Hippo for one or the numerous fathers from Alexandria

in fact, right up until the Islamic conquest we see the great schools of religion as being in Alexandria or Antioch -- not even among the Orthodox. Yes, they did ask the Pope as arbitrator, but the dynamism was in the East (and that kind of tells me why the Pope was kept as the arbitrator, lets say the office to be required to give infallible decisions -- because the Bishops of Rome kept away from the various theological upheavals and stayed true, so were the best to provide the Spirit driven decision)

From the Orient, come on, the Mongol tribe of the Naiman were Christians before the Hungarians or Slavs or Baltics were Christians

[Cronos]

And there is no politically correct piece about choosing an AFrican or Asian

no one's going to put a black guy as Pope just because he's black

Cardinal Turkson is quite conservative, in fact more conservative than many Italian Cardinals

And Cardinal Ivan Dias from India has publically stated that gays can be cured and that abortion of any kind is a heinuous sin

These guys are highly conservative and very good for the Church and they just happen to be of a different skin color

[Cronos]

As Mach9 said The choice is not ours or even the cardinals’, it’s the Holy Ghost’s. -- that's true. Again I say -- tell anyone in 1979 that the next Pope would not be an Italian, in fact would be the first Slavic Pope, a guy from communist country and they'd laugh in your face

I've met Poles from that generation who were stunned when it happened, but they thought in 1979, even after Pope JP II came to Warsaw to celebrate 1000 years of Christianity in Poland and chanted "Poland and Christianity are intertwined and can never be separated" with the communists glowering, they never believed that 6 years later they would be freed of the commies and that 12 years later the USSR would collapse.

God's will is incredible -- whatever we expect, He has other plans

[NYer]

The tradition of the church is not, nor ever has been, in Africa. It is a Western world religion, not an African or South American continent religion. There are no historical roots in Africa. And not that much in South America. And none in the Orient either.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you have written but some clarification needs to be made. First off, the Catholic Church is both Western and Eastern.

Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 21 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

While this diversity within the one Catholic Church can appear confusing at first, it in no way compromises the Church's unity. In a certain sense, it is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity. Just as God is three Persons, yet one God, so the Church is 22 Churches, yet one Church.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes this nicely:

"From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great diversity which comes from both the variety of God's gifts and the diversity of those who receive them... Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity" (CCC no. 814).

Although there are 22 Churches, there are only eight "Rites" that are used among them. A Rite is a "liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony," (Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, canon 28). "Rite" best refers to the liturgical and disciplinary traditions used in celebrating the sacraments. Many Eastern Catholic Churches use the same Rite, although they are distinct autonomous Churches. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church are distinct Churches with their own hierarchies. Yet they both use the Byzantine Rite.

To learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church, visit this link:

CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES

The Vatican II Council declared that "all should realize it is of supreme importance to understand, venerate, preserve, and foster the exceedingly rich liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Eastern churches, in order faithfully to preserve the fullness of Christian tradition" (Unitatis Redintegrato, 15).

A Roman rite Catholic may attend any Eastern Catholic Liturgy and fulfill his or her obligations at any Eastern Catholic Parish. A Roman rite Catholic may join any Eastern Catholic Parish and receive any sacrament from an Eastern Catholic priest, since all belong to the Catholic Church as a whole. I am a Roman Catholic practicing my faith at a Maronite Catholic Church. Like the Chaldeans, the Maronites retain Aramaic for the Consecration. It is as close as one comes to being at the Last Supper.

At the most recent consistory to elevate new cardinals, the Holy Father appointed two from the East: Maronite Patriarch Bechara Cardinal Rai and Syro-Malabar Major Archbishop Mar George Cardinal Alencherry. In retrospect, his reason for doing so was to add their voices to the electorate.

Insofar as the continent of Africa, perhaps you are not aware that the Catholic Church has 3 popes that hailed from Africa The African Popes of the Roman Catholic Church

As we catholics enter Lent, it is important to pray for Pope Benedict and the cardinals who will be selecting his successor.

[livius]

I don’t think anybody is saying the Pope has to be an African; Turkson was simply one of the people under discussion. I don’t think he’d be a very good choice, partly because I don’t think Africa yet has the “ecclesiastical infrastructure” to provide him with support outside of the Curia, partly because he is advocating for some crazy “world economy” scheme, and finally because he has been giving press interviews since yesterday telling people what he will do as Pope!

But aside from that, the Church creates its own culture, that is, Christian culture, which may be expressed a little differently here and there but as long as it is the product of orthodox Christian thought (the duty of the Pope is to maintain this) will produce unity and a coherent common culture. Western culture, after all, is nothing but the product of orthodox Christianity.