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To: verga
Okay let's clear one thing up right off the bat: No one is saved or damned until the moment of death. Up until then no one knows for certain.

So you cant know if you have it ... and you know for sure that you cant know ... that is what you do know for sure, that you cant know ...

1 John 5:11-13
11 And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Present tense all around ...

Doesnt say anything about "He who has the Son will find out if he has the life when he passes from this one" ... or ... "Upon death we find out if we have the life" ...

Seems like there are only two possibilities here ... either the person who is saved and has no assurance is not a mature believer ... or they are not a believer at all.

29 posted on 02/11/2013 10:19:03 AM PST by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: dartuser
1 Cor 15:1
I am reminding you, brothers and sisters,
of the gospel I preached to you,
which you indeed received and in which you also stand.
Through it you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you,

I guess Paul didn't know that being "saved" was a one-time thing about which we have "assurance."

32 posted on 02/11/2013 10:37:16 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: dartuser
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

From dictionary.com:

may 1 [mey] Show IPA auxiliary verb, present singular 1st person may, 2nd may or ( Archaic ) may·est or mayst, 3rd may; present plural may; past might. 1. (used to express possibility): It may rain.

Notice it says possibility, the third definition refers to a contingency.

Nothing absolute there at all.

Paul makes several references to the possibility of losing salvation, including running the race till the end, and the olive branches being removed from the tree.

36 posted on 02/11/2013 10:44:40 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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