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To: D-fendr
"Thanks, that is consistent with Calvinism; however it describes salvation by election."

Let me try something else: are you denying that there is a group referred to in scriptures as the "elect" (which, in our context, represents those having salvation)?

Because I'm not sure it matter how you slice it: yes, we believe that grace&faith result in salvation. Yes, we also believe that God knows the elect before the foundations of the world were laid (scriptures already cited on these).

Does this mean that election *causes* salvation? No... other events will take place later for that. It's kinda like (bad example coming) when we elect a politician to office. It's now enabled that he will take office, but he's still gotta go to the courthouse and be sworn in to accept his new position.

32 posted on 02/07/2013 1:13:07 PM PST by alancarp (Obama will grab your guns and ship them to Mexican drug mobs.)
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To: alancarp
Thanks for your reply:

It's now enabled that he will take office, but he's still gotta go to the courthouse and be sworn in to accept his new position.

If he doesn't, or there is any possibility that he can't or won't, then Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints is false.

The problem remains and is compounded with the free will choice and robot objections.

37 posted on 02/07/2013 1:20:07 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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