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To: Mrs. Don-o
"However, I think one source of misunderstanding is that you interpret some Catholic practices in a different sense than we do ourselves.

This in itself is not an essential element of worship --- a priest like Fr. Walter Ciszak in a Soviet prison in Siberia with a little tin cup and wine made from soaking smuggled raisins, is offering the divine worship as truly as Ambrose or Augustine in a splendid setting in 4th century Milan or Hippo. In neither case is the priest (Ciszak or Ambrose or Augustine) offering anything of his own at all, but only Christ, the One High Priest, who offers the only sacrifice necessary. You know that: trust that we know it, too."

You have a very gentle manner with your points. And, I agree that we agree on a great deal. And, I certainly recognize that there is a difference of interpretation between you (and perhaps most Catholics) and me regarding some Catholic practices. But, please know, the difference is not that I doubt sincerity or intention. I fully believe that both are genuine. It is whether the "practices" themselves are appropriate.

In Ciszak's case, again, sincerity is not questioned. And, all of the pictures posted I must assume are there to prove that the Eucharist can be done even in a bombed out hovel. But, the ritual itself, a re-creation of the death of Christ by claiming that bread and wine are transubstantiated into body and blood, here is the rub. This ritual, this action, this claim is not supported by biblical revelation. It is a construct of the men who lived following the first century patterned after the so-called "last supper".

However, Jesus could not have been giving the 12 this directive (to transubstantiate it), since neither had actually been broken or shed at that time. And, He said to do it in remembrance of me, not to replicate what I am about to do. This is an enormous leap, one not justified anywhere but by Rome (and other large organizations). Whatever the intention of the groups here, Paul is clear in his letter to the Hebrews that a repeat of sacrifices is a spit in the face to Jesus. Jesus did the impossible once for all...and sat down at the right hand of the Father.

And, I know you know the old saw, "...the road to hell is paved..." etc. It matters little if a person only intends the best. It matters what is the person doing. If someone claimed that sacrificing children by burning them on an altar to Jesus was simply a wonderful expression of offering their precious possessions to God, would we say, "Well, they are sincere, so why make a fuss?" or "Well, this is what Abraham was ordered to do, so it is right there in the Book."? No, of course not. We would say this is a misunderstanding of the text (bad hermeneutics) and cannot be true.

Well, then when a pope decrees indulgences (something foreign to the Scriptures but coming back into use), we cannot simply say, "Well, they mean well." If something is not encouraged in the Scriptures, then it is not to be done. Here is my great concern with the additional trappings of the RCC. They have added the sacraments, the absolution, the confessional booth, the indulgences, the purgatory, etc. It is this baggage which disqualifies it. Otherwise, we should allow all additions such as Mormonism, 7th day, Christian Science, JWs, even the bizarre Joel Osteen health/wealth cult(now partnering with Oprah).

What do we use to hold up against all organizations? Is the Bible sufficient? Do we have the message fully delivered and is Scripture "...inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." or not?

108 posted on 11/15/2012 9:17:01 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
I wish I had just a little more time for this (I'ver got to go out and rake up the leaves before it rains!)

Bu let me say that here we solidly agree: there is no "repeat sacrifice."

There is but one sacrifice: "the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world." (Rev 13:8) It happened outside of time, transcending time: it is timeless. That same sacrifice is the one of which Jesus spoke when he said "This is My Body, broken for you," "This is my Blood," --- either He means that, or He means nothing.

It was His body broken and His blood shed at Calvary --- same sacrifice, Thursday in an unbloody manner, Friday in a bloody manner. This morning at 7:30 a.m. in my parish --- same sacrifice--- one Bread, one Body, one Lord, one High Priest who is Jesus Christ Himself.

We're not like Civil War Reenactors, shooting off something that's all bang and no bullet. ... "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?"

If this is not real, then nothing is real. "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

Back to raking leaves! :o)

109 posted on 11/15/2012 11:20:46 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (What does the Lord require of you but to act justly, to love tenderly, to walk humbly with your God.)
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