Posted on 11/08/2012 6:48:56 AM PST by marshmallow
Early figures show that 50% of Catholics chose Obama and 48% opted for Romney. The Catholic hierarchy’s hopes of a Republican victory were dashed
After an election which saw Catholic voters take sides like never before, American bishops are finding themselves having to deal with Barack Obama’s re-election to the White House. According to the bishops of Pennsylvania, one of the key U.S. states that had been split between the two parties but then won over by the Democratic candidate, Obama would lead the United States to “los[e] its soul by little steps.” In recent weeks, many representatives of the Catholic hierarchy have expressed their preference, for Mitt Romney, albeit discreetly in many cases, in letters, homilies and online messages.
Early poll figures, however, showed that in the past, U.S. Catholics listened to their bishops but then tended to follow their own conscience when voting: the majority sided with Obama although the majority was lower than four years ago. In fact, by nature of their choices, Catholics are the group that is most representative of the positions of everyone in the U.S.: just like the average American, 50% of Catholics voted for Obama and 48% for Romney.
Naturally, from a voting point of view, this fact should be read in light of one determining factor: religious practice. Catholics and Protestants who go to church every week chose Romney over Obama with a difference of 20%, whereas the Democratic candidate was 25% ahead in terms of the votes gained from individuals who practiced their faith less regularly.
The “defeat” was made all the more bitter for the Church, by the success, in many States, of the referendum on issues such as same-sex marriage, the death penalty and the use of marijuana. These are all issues which Catholics are deeply.....
(Excerpt) Read more at vaticaninsider.lastampa.it ...
shameful
I guarantee my TLM parish was not split 50/50.
This is why I will no longer tithe.
I do not consider any “Catholic” who lowered themselves to vote for the Obamadork to be a Catholic.
To those who did: Just leave and become an socialist/athiest.
You’re 99% there anyway, why disgrace the church by entering it?
(We got enough problems getting rid of liberal/gay priests.)
Another freeper...Iscool, IIRC posted this tidbit. Anglo Catholics went for Romney 60-40, mexiacn Catholics went for obama 75-25. There's the problem. We've allowed ourselves to be overrun and minorities and illegals have outnumbered us and imposed obama on the country.
I tithe to my parish, the FSSP, and to holy orders of religious (e.g. the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist.)
Diocesan appeals go right into the round file. I have been tempted to write a note to the bishop saying I’m not giving to the diocese until he ends his passive resistance to Summorum Pontificum, but I don’t want to cause trouble for my FSSP parish.
Save for later read.
SATAN has split your church.
I gift what I have to PFL and other folks who are doing God’s work for the Church. I just volunteer at my parish.
I am not Catholic. But if you are, there’s no way you could have voted for nobama. Just to start with, millions and millions of dead babies. If you voted for nobama, you’re a CINO and should pray for forgiveness and schedule a couple of hours with your priest for confession. It will take that long.
Looking at how they handled things here, in a heavily Democrat area, it appears they chose to not upset Dems who contribute to the collection basket over any other consideration.
The closest they came to sounding the alarm was a half-hearted message directing us to go the the parish website where we could access a web link to the Bishop’s statement. Like even 1% actually went and did that.
More like a cino/Caholic split.
There are two reasons why I left the Catholic Church back in 1992. Liberal pro-abort and various other "cafeteria catholics" was one of those reasons.
Clearly they're taking over the Church and I refuse to be a part of that. When the Catholic Church ex-communicates those folks, I'll consider returning, not a moment before.
Catholics are not split 50/50
Those who vote for abortion and the attacks on the Catholic Church are not Catholics. They should stay home on Sunday.
They are also idiots to vote for another 4 years of this Muslim POS.
—— Clearly they’re taking over the Church and I refuse to be a part of it -——
By leaving the Church, you decrease the influence of orthodox Catholics —the very thing you oppose.
If they are reprobate enough to vote for this evil man, they are probably on board with all the other anti-Christian, anti-God issues as well. They'd have to be.
And being such, they would be ineligible for communion. But they will NEVER be denied. This is the biggest sin - by the CHURCH!
As it is now, the whole church is faced with closing hospitals and other charities due to ObamaCare. If the church buckles on this, they will buckle on anything. It means the Constitution has been scrapped and the Church had been breached.
They probably already do, except for major holidays, weddings and funerals.
But they still label themselves "Catholics."
How very sad.
I do appreciate the president for one thing; he has been very good about providing clarity; he has forced many Christians (Catholic and otherwise) to declare publicly the gods they really worship.
It is high time for a Christians, especially Catholics, to embrace the Cross. It may very well mean martyrdom - loss of jobs, wealth, security, or even life.
There’s no way my parish was split 50/50. I’m sure we have a few idiots, but for me, the telling phrase in the article was, “Catholics and Protestants who go to church every week chose Romney over Obama with a difference of 20%.”
There’s a lot of people out there calling themselves Catholics in these polls who are no more Catholic than I am an anteater.
No, they still attend, and act holier than thou.
I know them.
Their real religion is Dem Party.
They disagree with men tenets of the Catholic Church, but if the Democratic party says Sh*t they ask where and how high to pile it.
“For Wales? Why, Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world ... but for Wales!”
::Facepalm::
Satan has slit a lot of churches.
I'm ticked off at how many libs are in at my church, most likely the pastor too. It makes me wonder if we worship the same God?
How could anyone who calls themselves a christian vote for Obama? Where the hell is there discernment?
So the 50-50 split is simply a reflection of the surrounding society and would indicate that all the official pronouncements against abortion, birth control, etc. has made little or no lasting impression upon Catholics going to the polls.
Does anyone know if the national exit polling for Catholics is made up all the states or what? I mean there should be a state by state breakdown somewhere if that is the case, and I can’t find it. I have found one article that says Ohio Catholics went for Romney by + 9 points, but everything else just seems to be a national number, which is pretty useless.
Freegards
The half that does not read and understand the Bible are the Obama voters. They never read or study the Bible. They come to church, sing songs, and go home.
8 out of 10 white Protestants voted for Romney...95% of black Protestants voted for Obama...
6 out of 10 White Catholics voted for Romney...75% of Mexican Catholics voted for Obama...
That’s encouraging.
In the Catholic Church the Pope has made it clear who to vote for in the election. The Protestant Church is a mess.
Well, I don’t know if it is encouraging or not. Catholics went for McLame last time in Ohio as well, in addition to places like Pa and Mn. But in the huge blue states like NY and Cali Obama won the Catholic vote handily in 2008.
My point is all we ever hear is a national number, but we vote by the electoral college by state. The biggest split I could find for 2008 was NM vs La, where Catholics in NM voted for Obama by 70% and Catholics in La voted for Mclame by 70%. How is a national number in any way useful when there are splits of 70% one way or another?
Freegards, thanks for all the pings on FR
In Russia, after the communists eliminated their political enemies, they went after Christians. The average church then dwindled from 300 to 15. That’s a 95% falling away. The same thing will happen in America.
If it weren't for the abortion provision they may have backed Obamacare 100%.
This is the main problem. Socialism.
Nice try! By the Church LEADERSHIP failing continuously to address the problems posed by the CINO's, the Church LEADERSHIP has itself failed to maintain it's influence, period.
Nice try, but the Church is a voluntary organization whose membership is predicated in being in Communion with her. Those who have walked away from their Church in favor of secularism are not going to heed the advice or admonishments of the bishops anymore than those who have walked away from their Church to become Evangelicals or Mormons.
Blame it on the Reformation. When it became common and acceptable for some to reject Church teaching in favor of a contrived belief system or heresy every other rejection of the Church became acceptable and routine. When one can judge for themselves what is right and what is wrong you not only get 33,000+ denominations, but millions of individual heresies as well, all equally invalid.
Peace be with you
As the Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus, not even if nearly every bishop espoused outright formal heresy would I be persuaded to leave her.
But unfortunately, most American bishops are part-time Catholics and full-time Democrats.
As the poster what's up points out a couple of posts above yours, if it weren't for the funding of abortion and the HHS mandate, most all the bishops would be fine with Obamacare.
Bad bishops are a bad reason to leave the Church.
But unfortunately, we have a surplus of these bad reasons.
sitetest
This is exactly why we are called to the New Evangelization. We are the Church, we must be the change, the Church Militant. If the gates of hell will not stand against us, what are a few wayward bishops?
Peace be with you
“If the gates of hell will not stand against us, what are a few wayward bishops?”
There are roughly 200 dioceses in the United States. I doubt the ordinaries of more than 10 are worth more than a bucket of warm spit.
As well, these are supposed to be our shepherds. Sadly, nearly all of them behave like hired hands. And they lead many, many laity astray.
I’ve told this story at FR before, but it perfectly illustrates my point, so I’ll repeat it.
I’m a Past Grand Knight of my Knights of Columbus council. One would think that folks in the Knights would all be solid, pro-life Catholics. And many are. But a horrifyingly large number are not.
One of the wives of one of our members worked closely with me on any number of council projects. We were doing a pro-life program, and we were chatting, and she revealed that she’s pro-abort.
I was stunned. I questioned her, “How can you be a pro-abort? How can you think abortion should be legal and be a devout, involved, active Catholic?”
She said, “Well, I believe in a woman’s right to choose and that the government should keep their hands off women’s bodies.”
“But don’t you believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church?” I asked.
She said, “Yeah, for the most part. Especially the important ones.”
“But the Church has made crystal clear that there can be no right to abortion, that abortion is always the killing of an innocent person, and no Catholic can be in favor of laws granting a license for abortion,” I replied.
“They don’t really mean that about abortion,” she said.
“How can you say that?? They have EMPHATICALLY said these things,” I said.
“They don’t really mean them. If they did, they would have excommunicated Ted Kennedy [he was still living then] years and years ago,” she concluded.
What could I say? She was right! If the bishops, the hierarchy were serious about the life issues, they’da started excommunicatin’ folks a long time ago. That they have not has given scandal, in the Catholic sense of the word, and has led many Catholics right off the cliff into gravely objective evil. The bishops have induced millions into committing the matter of mortal sin. They have caused millions, potentially, to commit spiritual suicide.
It’s difficult for the laity to do the New Evangelization thingy when the bishops are leading roughly half of us to Hell.
sitetest
The history of the Church is that it doesn't act until it is smacked in the face by something, this is no exception.
I was shocked at how poorly so very many Catholics had been catechized. It was everywhere I looked, Nuns, Priests, DREs, Catechists, lay ministers, KofC, parents, kids, former, lapsed and failed Catholics, everywhere. It was only when I studied the heresy of modernism that it struck me; Vatican II had opened the door to modernism and it has literally taken control of much of the US Catholic Church.
You see, the Church and the Clergy is comprised of what I call "Huggers", "Shruggers", and "Sluggers". I, like Jesus' choice to establish His Church, am a slugger. I made it my mission to do what I could do to turn things around, to re-Evangelize the Church every way I could. I teach adults in Faith Formation, with special emphasis on parents of children in "late start" catechism. I am in Diaconate Formation and have unequivocally established my role as the head of my domestic Church. I will not fail my Church when she needs me most. I encourage everyone to do the same.
Peace be with you.
Both can be true.
First, it isn’t my belief that the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council “opened the door” to heresy. My parents, may God grant them eternal rest, were material heretics, plain and simple. Why? They grew up in the 1920s and 1930s - some distance yet away from Vatican II. Their catechesis was atrocious. They were the children of poor Italian immigrants and the damned Irish who controlled their parishes didn’t think enough of them to instruct them in the faith properly. I guess the damned Irish thought they were too stupid to handle it.
When the 1950s (we’re STILL not to VII), they began to hear the itchy ears nonsense of all the new theologians. They began to hear about the Pill and how it would make life better, and how the Church would finally accommodate itself to modernity. But they didn't have the knowledge, the formation, to tell the wheat from the chaff, the possible from the impossible. To her dying day, my mother never understood the difference between dogma, doctrine and discipline. "If the Church can make it so we can eat meat on Fridays, she can change her view on birth control," she used to say. By the time VII rolled around, they were already poorly-formed, but quite well-formed in their poor formation.
By the time of VII, my parents were already approaching middle age. The seeds of heresy and dissent had been planted long before VII, and VII didn’t cause the sprouting of same. It was used, illicitly, by some to further their dirty work, but blaming it on VII is incorrect and slanderous.
Second, it’s great that you’re so involved. That doesn’t mean that we can go without the leadership of the bishops. We need good bishops. The laity can’t take the place of good bishops. Regrettably, we have few good bishops. We suffer as a result.
As for entering the diaconate, I wish you well with that. I’ve given it a little thought myself over the years. Some folks have even suggested that I pursue such a path. But I realized that to become a deacon, I would have to vow personal obedience to my local bishop. In that I have little respect for most of these men, save for their basic humanity and the majesty of their offices, I’d be loathe to make such a vow. I know that with someone like me, who can be a little outspoken, nearly any bishop would abuse that vow to silence me.
In terms of my own domestic church, I take my role seriously and have tried my best. We homeschooled our two sons through eighth grade, and took some care for their religious formation. The older guy is off at college this year, the younger guy is a junior at a local Catholic high school. So far, so good. Got my fingers crossed, sayin’ my rosaries. They know and love God and do their best to be disciples of Jesus. That’s all I could ask for. I’ve received far more - they are obedient, intelligent, diligent, extremely hardworking, academically highly successful, courteous, well-mannered, articulate, and just a whole lotta fun.
My wife and I personally believe that our first and primary vocations in life have been as husband and wife, father and mother. Into this we have poured our hearts and souls as our way of giving due worship and adoration to God. If we have succeeded to any degree, it is solely by the grace of God, and it is the best thing that we could have done for the Church and for the world.
sitetest
Modernism, called the synthesis of all heresies by Pope Pius X, has been around since the early 19th century. It was declared a heresy in 1907 by Pope Puis X required all clergy swear an oath against modernism. That did not mean that modernism was dead any more than the Nicean Council killed Arianism. In the aftermath of Vatican II the oath was rescinded and modernism reemerged from the shadows, Today it pervades every aspect of Catholicism. It is still as destructive and heretical as it every was,
Yes they can. You don't know this, but I frequently follow your posts on these forums and I generally have much respect for what you post. You tend to be more open and honest than many and I respect that.
While that's a very good summarization of the issue, the sad reality is the Catholic Church is far from alone in suffering that problem.
“If it weren’t for the abortion provision they may have backed Obamacare 100%.”
They came out en masse not because of abortion itself, but because THEY were going to be paying for them as well. There was no united front until then; they seemed quite content to let us pay for them, though...
True conservative would never surrender Our Mother Church to liberal modernists. So stop writing rubbish and join traditional Catholics in their crusade against both, internal and external enemies of the church.
Nitpicky here, but I'm not Anglo. While there are some Anglo Catholics, a large number of white Catholics are not Anglo as their roots aren't from England of Anglia. Irish, Italians, and Poles are definitely not Anglo.
you do yourself or your cause no favors with responses such as yours.
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