choice, morman or muslim, loves american, hates america and is marx...JFK as a catholic went through religious bigotry also...we aren’t choosing a pastor or priest but a president..
Already sent this to GG in a previous thread...so this is for others interested in how Lds "prophets" operate:
Read the second line in the chart below...and then inform all of us what promises did Kennedy ever make that comes even close to the sacred temple promise Romney has made to the Mormon church?
Then...continue on and read the Lds "prophets'" statements below (along with other Lds general authorities)...And then, you be sure to please show us where the Pope has made similar spiritual-political imposing statements such as what you find from those Lds leaders below...except for the first three statements, ALL of them were made by Lds leaders between the 1960s and 1980s...
The bottom-line: No one will be able to reinforce GG's strawman case of a Kennedy comparison equivalent...Why? Because you can't argue from a void.
Therefore it's no parallel...
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | By contrast: Roman Catholic leader (like a Pope or John F. Kennedy) | Any similar statements made by a Pope or Kennedy |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] | Kennedy made no similar vows to the Catholic church that Romney has made to the Mormon church | No comparative vow |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | No parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | The LDS Church -- in 2001 -- thought it well to pull this quote from John Taylor to emphasize it: "The Lord...is desirous to show us how to save ourselves, how to bless ourselves temporally and spiritually, intellectually, morally, physically, POLITICALLY..." (Lds Church owned Deseret News, Nov. 19, 1865, p. 2, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor (2001, p. 178). Also from p. 178: "The idea of strictly religious feelings with us, and nothing else, is out of the question...Our religion is more comprehensive than that of the world...it embraces all the interests of humanity in every conceivable phrase..." (Original source: The Gospel Kingdom, 1943, p. 168) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?) | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic popes | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |
| B.H. Roberts | LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! | “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180 | No contemporary parallel exists between Lds "prophets" and Roman Catholic Vatican | No Pope in the past 150 years has made statements similar to Lds "prophets": Those who raise up this 'strawman' argue from silence |