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To: ravenwolf; Elsie; All
You are right, my meaning was that we will be judged as individuals, not because of the name on the Church that we attend or don,t attend, our faith has to be in Jesus as there is no other name.

Well, allow me to elaborate here...'cause by Jesus' death on the cross, God already judged sin -- and His Son suffered the punishment for that sin.

HENCE, AT LEAST TWO TYPES OF JUDGMENT: One past; One future

The Bible points to at least two types of judgment. One future -- which we will all undergo. Yet based upon John 3:18, 1 John 5:10-13, & 1 Cor. 3:10-15, I can tell you it still won't be the basis for whether a person is granted entrance into heaven.

We need to ask ourselves: What is the basis of whether or how God will forgive our personal sins?

I think we tend to "miss the boat" in misunderstanding two dimensions of judgment: One dimension is our sin nature and our individual acts of sin--including our sins of omission. The other dimension is our works.

We can't exchange the two:

Works don't get us into heaven;
and sin doesn't in and of itself keep us from heaven.

We're ALL sinners;
but not all sinners are trusting Christ to atone for their sin -- hence some, are either trying to work their way into God's eternal presence (like temple Mormons); or, think God will somehow grade on a curve -- also a sort of works-righteousness faulty scheme.

THE PAST JUDGMENT ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SIN

For our sin, Heavenly Father fully judged Jesus on the cross. When Jesus said "It is finished" on the cross, He used a phrase that in His day was a financial phrase meaning, "paid in full." Our debt -- our sin -- was paid in full. If we try to pay for our sin/atonement, Heavenly Father rejects it as being laced with unrighteousness (Is. 64:6).

And as Judge, both the Father and Jesus could claim, “that's double jeopardy” if we try to pay for what Jesus already paid for on the cross.

Jesus solidly reinforced this when He said: 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned ALREADY because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18)

I'm saying that God the Father judged all sin on the cross, which has already occurred. Jesus' righteousness becomes our righteousness by substitution (1 Cor. 1:30), transferred by way of faith & His grace-gift (Eph. 2:8-9). In the 10 Commandments movie, those who were saved were saved by the blood of the Lamb. Yet they still needed to transfer faith that it had salvific power.

THE FUTURE JUDGMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN

But when people talk about God judging the stewardship of our works in the future, they are correct. Note this passage:

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3:10-15)

Do we see that last sentence? Even if our work is burned up, we can "suffer loss" in heaven -- yet, Paul assures us that "he himself WILL BE saved." (Paul goes on to describe that like somebody pulled out of a burning building at the last second...by Jesus Christ the Deliverer and Rescuer).

So, our works will get quite a "grilling" of judgment from God. But Paul makes it clear in this passage that even when our measured works burn up as nothing -- as God's fiery judgment takes a match to them like fuel, we ourselves "will still be saved." (1 Cor. 3:15)

So the righteousness of Jesus is our free pass into heaven. (1 Cor. 1:30). Entrust your life to Him (that is more than just mouthing a few words). But simultaneously, be prepared that once you get there based solely upon your faith in Christ, that He will take a fine-toothcomb to our works -- and judge them. And that it's possible to still become saved -- and still "suffer loss." (None of us should want to suffer such loss in heaven -- whatever that turns out to be)

May I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps you misunderstand the Christian gospel?

Do you realize right after John 3:16...comes these two verses: 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. (John 3:18-19)

IOW, God already has judged our sin. The verdict has already been rendered...and the punishment was taken out upon Christ on the cross.

That's the Christian gospel: That we don't have to to wonder about our eventual destination. 1 John 5:11-13 also expresses how one can have assurance of salvation. (And in John 3:36 and 5:24, Jesus expresses eternal life as something we have -- present tense -- not will have...future tense). The reason for that is because when Jesus Christ defined eternal life, He defined it as “knowing” (a relationship) between His Father and Himself and His people.

We need to ask ourselves: What is the basis of whether or how God will forgive our personal sins?

I think we tend to "miss the boat" in misunderstanding two dimensions of judgment: One dimension is our sin nature and our individual acts of sin--including our sins of omission. The other dimension is our works.

We can't exchange the two. For our sin, Heavenly Father fully judged Jesus on the cross (as I said; this is past tense). When Jesus said "It is finished" on the cross, He used a phrase that in His day was a financial phrase meaning, "paid in full." Our debt -- our sin -- was paid in full. If we try to pay for our sin/atonement, Heavenly Father rejects it as being laced with unrighteousness (Is. 64:6).

And as Judge, both the Father and Jesus could claim, “that's double jeopardy” if we try to pay for what Jesus already paid for on the cross.

But when people talk about God judging the stewardship of our works in the future, they are correct. Note this passage:

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3:10-15)

Do we see that last sentence? Even if our work is burned up, we can "suffer loss" in heaven -- yet, Paul assures us that "he himself WILL BE saved." (Paul goes on to describe that like somebody pulled out of a burning building at the last second...by Jesus Christ the Deliverer and Rescuer).

So, our works will get quite a "grilling" of judgment from God -- future tense. But Paul makes it clear in this passage that even when our measured works burn up as nothing -- as God's fiery judgment takes a match to them like fuel, we ourselves "will still be saved." (1 Cor. 3:15)

So the righteousness of Jesus is our free pass into heaven. (1 Cor. 1:30). Entrust your life to Him (that is more than just mouthing a few words). But simultaneously, be prepared that once you get there based solely upon your faith in Christ, that He will take a fine-toothcomb to our works -- and judge them. And that it's possible to still become saved -- and still "suffer loss."

(None of us should want to suffer such loss in heaven -- whatever that turns out to be). If anybody's shooting for trying to show God how "worthy" they are, they are worshiping the wrong God. (The word "worthy" is tied to "worship"; and we are not to either worship or "worthship" ourselves). Our value and worth was shown by Jesus at the cross. He died for us. We are only "worthy" in Him. 'Tis NONE of it is of ourselves.

On top of that, Jesus says we need to be perfect (Matt. 5:48). And if we break one part of the law, we are guilty of all of it (book of James). Therefore we fall short. Our self-worth is never enough. Our only hope is to have our sin be judged according to the perfection of Jesus Christ, which is substituted on our behalf. That's why Paul says Jesus is OUR Righteousness. (1 Cor. 1:30)

40 posted on 08/07/2012 11:50:18 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

May I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps you misunderstand the Christian gospel?


You might be right, but if i knew it better than the back of my hand i would still most likely say the same thing, my folks sent me to school to be a wit, but i only went half way.

But what i was saying is that religion has nothing to do with it, God knows if he is in our our hearts or not.

As for the things he told us to do like do unto others as you would have them do unto you, which is the works of faith and covers most of what he told us also has nothing to do with religion.


44 posted on 08/07/2012 4:08:16 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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