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To: spunkets; Salvation
"Thought is either rational, or it's not. All else is irrelevant."

Rationalism, and its close cousin modernism, are considered heresies by the Church. When one breaks down the essential difference between Catholicism and Protestantism, we see that the breakdown lies between reason derived from faith for the Catholic, and faith determined by reason for the Protestant. The Catholic believes God based on the living authority and living Voice (The Holy Spirit) He gave to those chosen to spread the Gospel. The Catholic believes that man has the capacity to comprehend the infallible Word of God by his reason, but his reason does not determine what he will and will not believe. Faith is an act of the will.

The Protestantism which puts man’s intellect and individual rational capacity above and before faith. Most Protestants will not believe what does not make sense to them. Although most Protestants will profess Sola Fide, it is not really faith in God they are living by, but only faith in themselves and their cognitive abilities. For the Catholic, faith precedes reason, for the Protestant, reason precedes faith.

Simply put, the Protestant takes God’s Written Word and attempts as best as he can to determine what it means for him, and then put his faith in what he has determined. He bases his faith off of what he reads in and into the Scriptures and determines for himself the doctrines he will believe. This is completely the opposite of Catholicism position, which simply listens to God’s voice speaking through His one and only Church, and then seeks to understand that faith by his reason.

Peace be with you

39 posted on 07/25/2012 5:41:41 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
Re: Thought is either rational, or it's not. All else is irrelevant.

"Rationalism, and its close cousin modernism, are considered heresies by the Church.

The "ism" doesn't apply. Logic is machine independent, so it does not matter which mind does the rational processing. The processing is either rational, or irrational according to the laws of logic.

"The Catholic believes that man has the capacity to comprehend the infallible Word of God by his reason, but his reason does not determine what he will and will not believe. Faith is an act of the will.

A Catholic may believe this, but it has no bearing on reality. A person believes what they do by virtue of rational processing in the mind. Will is a rather etherial term used for the more accurate and precise term, decision. Something is believed, because the person has made a decision to do so and that decision requires a set of reasons, or justifications for the particular decision. Faith is simply a decision to believe based on the reason of trust in the person making the claim.

"For the Catholic, faith precedes reason, for the Protestant, reason precedes faith."

Catholic is rrelevant here. Man is made in God's Image. The above applies universally to any sentient rational being. A person does not need faith in a god, or anyone else, to hold and value the primary and dependent laws respectively: "to love they neighbor, as thyself", and "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor". Allegations require evidence, not faith. Faith applies to the attachment of th qualification sin attached to any violation of the above laws. Do you have any evidence for the filthy allegations made against the deceased Cardninal?

43 posted on 07/25/2012 6:41:24 PM PDT by spunkets
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