Posted on 07/04/2012 9:04:56 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
....The answer to the overarching question, then, is a nuanced affirmative. Did King George III call the American Revolution a Presbyterian Rebellion? Maybe, or even probably, but primary source documentation is lacking. Did King George III consider the American Revolution a Presbyterian Rebellion? Definitely. [H]e gave every impression that it was a sentiment he held. Nothing suggests that George III disagreed with the opinion of his advisor, William Jones, who said that the American Revolution was a Presbyterian war from the beginning....
...Anyone attempting to allege a Presbyterian vs. Episcopalian controversy at the bottom of the revolt must explain the contradictory evidence. In particular, some of the most important leaders of the revolution were, in fact, Episcopalians members of the Church of England. Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence 34 were Episcopalians while only 6 were Presbyterians. In that light, it seems that the king would have had more warrant to call the revolution an Episcopal Rebellion than a Presbyterian Rebellion. All one has to do is cite the examples of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison, Patrick Henry, and George Wythe; and the Anglican vs. Presbyterian interpretation of the war quickly breaks down. These men were all bona fide Episcopalians, but at the same time, promoters of American independence.
The loyalists were quite aware of these facts, but they did not concede the point. According to loyalists, although many of the rebels wore Anglican masks, their hearts were not in harmony with their facade. Such was the observation of a loyalist named Tingly who tried to explain in 1782 the contradictory behavior of these revolutionary Episcopalians. Tho they always professed themselves Churchmen [i.e., Episcopalians], they have proved that their principles & professions were not unisons; or, in other words, that they are Churchmen by profession, but Presbyterians by trade, i.e., no friends to [Anglican] Church and state And those of this stamp joined with the hot brained Zealots among the Presbyterians who have almost all, without exception, proved fiery advocates for independency....
....So, a happy Independence Day to my American friends as we remember this Presbyterian Rebellion.
Happy Presbyterian Rebellion Day!
Well, although a number of Episcopalians joined the rebellion, it tended to be people who had a problem with the Established Church of England.
In the mid seventeenth century, it was the Presbyterians who led the way in the Civil War and Puritan Revolution. But in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth century, some of the chief opponents of the Hanoverian rule were Scottish and English Catholics, who fought several times to try to restore the House of Stuart to the throne. See several of Walter Scott’s novels for some good accounts.
And in the American Revolution, Catholics played an important role—notably the Maryland Catholics such as Charles Carroll of Carrollton—who put up a ton of money to support the rebellion and was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence.
So, perhaps oddly from the perspective of many of the Catholic-baiters on this thread, it was a coalition of Puritans and Catholics, among others, who defeated the British.
I’m reading CROMWELL Our Chief of Men by Antonia Fraser.
It’s a very difficult read because of the scope of time, events, and various parties and views involved.
I find it particularly interesting because A. Fraser is a Catholic historian discussing Cromwell, the Presbyterians/Covenanters as a political movement, working to remove the monarchy and institute representative government.
Reading this article, I see that it is important to know that Presbyterianism and government goes way back to the 1600’s and is integral to English history...it certainly didn’t start with America.
I am not a scholar, and state that this is clumsily written.
Great article to be reading at this time.
Just adding my two-bits.
The liberal pcusa and some if not most of the pca would never rebel against the same circumstances now. They’ve ignored Gods instruction on the doctrine of interposition so why would they fight for it now?
I’m still Prebyterian but I really miss John Knox.
In North Carolina, the Presbyterians joined with the royal Governour (Tryon) to persecute Baptists, Quakers, and other groups, and to try to force them to pay taxes to the king to support the religious establishment.
I know the quote you’re looking for, I’ve run across it when reading about ‘Huck’s Defeat’, a small Patriot victory in which my ancestor John Carroll shot Captain Christian Huck, the leader of the Loyalists terrorizing the South Carolina back country. This is the actual quote:
“Call this war by whatever name you may, only call it not an American Rebellion: it is nothing more or less than a Scotch-Irish Presbyterian Rebellion.”
It was made in 1778 by a Hessian officer in the service of King George III and is cited from this source:
Ronnie Hanna, Land of the Free (Lurgan, Co. Armagh, N. Ireland: Ulster Society Publications Limited, 1992)
You can read about Huck’s Defeat, the Battle of Williamson’s Plantation here:
http://sciway3.net/clark/revolutionarywar/1780-Huck_noframes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huck’s_Defeat
Me too.
Oliver Cromwell, reporting back to the authorities in England in 1651 about his campaign in Ireland, had this to say:
All is not well with Ireland yet. You gave us the money, you gave us the guns. But let me tell you that every house in Ireland is a house of prayer, and when I bring these fanatical Irish before the muzzles of my guns, they hold up in their hands a string of beads, and they never surrender.
On this day Americans commemorate the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, which took place on July 4, 1776. The church in the U.S. incorporated this observance into the liturgy with a special mass asking for peace, justice, and truth. (Source: Daily Roman Missal, Edited by Rev. James Socías, Midwest Theological Forum, Chicago, Illinois ©2003)
Collect:
God of justice, Father of truth,
who guide creation in wisdom and goodness
to fulfillment in Christ your Son,
open our hearts to the truth of his Gospel,
that your justice guide our lives.
Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever. +Amenor
Father of all nations and ages,
we recall the day when our country
claimed its place among the family of nations;
for what has been achieved we give you thanks,
for the work that still remains we ask your help,
and as you have called us from many peoples to be one nation,
grant that, under your providence,
our country may share your blessings
with all the peoples of the earth.
Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
who lives and reigns with you int he unity of the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever. +Amen.Readings: from Masses for Various Occasions & Needs (For Public Needs)
The National Hymn
God of our Fathers
The Puritans like the Presbyterians were Calvinists. Most of the colonists outside of Episcopalians were Calvinists. and the Episcopalians at the time were much more reformed than they are today.
Besides the Presbyterians and Puritans, the Dutch, German, Swedish, Swiss Reformed churches scattered about the colonies were all Calvinists. As were the small number of French Huguenots.
Why Calvinists? The Calvinists were the big losers of the wars of the 17th century all over Europe.
The Presbyterians were the reason the articulation of a right to freedom of religion was necessary for the Constitution to be ratified. Less than 100 years before the Declaration of Independence it was illegal to be Catholic in many of the colonies and as late as 1654 Massachusetts actually executed 10 people for being Catholic. Although only 1.6% of colonists were Catholic estimates were that over 5% of all colonial troops were Catholic. Ironically, it was the contributions of heavily Catholic Pennsylvania militia, the intervention of Catholic France and Spain and the assistance of de Kalb and Pulaski that secured our independence.
Here in NC, the independence movement was a Baptist affair. A large share of the Regulators were Baptists, and the back-country in the state was heavily Baptist (the Presbyterians were mostly represented among the Highland Scots (loyalists, for the most part) in the Cape Fear region as well as among Scots-Irish in the Piedmont (from among whom, however, many of the Baptist converts were made).
John Leland and other Virginia Baptists were the ones who prevailed upon Jefferson and especially Madison to include the language of religious freedom (rather than mere toleration) in the 1st amendment.
Thank you, Dr. I am about 25% in on the book. It’s great, and has much to say on the subject that many here should read. Much refutation of mythology, to say the least.
What Presbyterian denomination are you in?
What Presbyterian denomination are you in?
What Presbyterian denomination are you in?
The Baptists suffered greatly at the hands of the Presbyterians in the Mass Bay Colony right along side of the Catholics. Many were punished and banished, not to other colonies but cast adrift in open boats out of sight of land without oars, sails or provisions. Others were left tied to trees three to five days walk into the western woods.
I won't try to discredit the sacrifice and bravery of the many Presbyterians who paid the ultimate price over the last 236 years, God Bless them all. I served along side more than a few and doctrinal differences are never discussed during a fire fight. My point is that it took the suffering and contributions of many groups to secure and keep our independence and freedoms. That is the magic and beauty of America. It just irks me when any one group trie to take credit for all of it.
Peace be with you.
My pleasure. I don’t have the physical book but downloaded the ebook version to my iPhone. I still haven’t gotten past the Forward but its on my list to do.
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