Posted on 06/29/2012 4:31:04 PM PDT by NYer
“12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”
“please provide one verse that says baptism is a picture or symbolic.
the Bible tells us baptism is how we get into Christ.
Romans 6:3 do you not know that that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus , were baptized into his death?
no symbolism there.
Galatians 3:27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:26-27 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
We are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.
Which is superior, the baptism of water or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
And what cleanses us from sin? The baptismal water, or the blood of Christ received by faith?
Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1Co 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Rev 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Oh look, I’m a PRIEST too by the blood of the lamb. Looks like your Catholic Priests can take the day off then. I’ll take over from here.
thanks for confirming that no one was ever told to be baptized as a first act of obedience.
Paul was told to rise, be baptized and wash away his sins.
two baptisms??
hmm, Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.
Seems like the Holy Spirit anticipated this two baptism teaching 1,500 years before it appeared on the world scene.
“thanks for confirming that no one was ever told to be baptized as a first act of obedience.
Paul was told to rise, be baptized and wash away his sins.”
again, i thank you for confirming there is not one verse in the Bible that says Baptism is symbolic.
the Bible teaches there is ONE BAPTISM. the Bible never uses the phrase “water baptism” and “spirit baptism” why not? because there is only ONE BAPTISM. in baptism, one receives the Holy Spirit as Peter says in Acts 2:38.
so you can continue to believe 16th century tradition of men, i would rather believe the Scriptures as the Church has for 2,000 years.
There is only one baptism that joins us to Christ: baptism in the Holy Spirit. As the verse you quote implies and the one I quoted explicitly states.
The unrepentant lives of millions baptized as babies who live and die in unrepented sin is evidence that water baptism does NOT save. Frankly, Teddy Kennedy is ample evidence of that...
This Scripture is often quoted to support infant baptism. It, however, is an argument against the practice. Jesus is saying those of such character or disposition of young children would enter the kingdom.
Jesus himself set the pattern when he said to first make a disciple and then baptize them and teach them. An infant could hardly become a disciple.
And so it is in the rest of the Scriptures: No infants are baptized. But rather they followed the pattern Jesus himself set, Become a disciple, get baptized, be taught.
“for in one Spirit we were all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY - Jews or Greeks, slaves or free- and all were made to drink of One Spirit”
again no symbolism here, it says WE WERE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY.
NO SYMBOLISM, BAPTISM PLACES US INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST. Paul says the same thing in Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27.
NO SYMBOLISM, NO FIRST ACT OF OBEDIENCE.
“Paul was told to rise, be baptized and wash away his sins.”
Are we washed in water, or in the Blood of the Lamb?
“22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. 23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” - Heb 9
“knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.” - 1 Peter 1
“There is only one baptism that joins us to Christ: baptism in the Holy Spirit. As the verse you quote implies and the one I quoted explicitly states.”
we agree, in baptism we receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 and Peter said to them, repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
again, i thank you for confirming there is not one verse in the Bible that says Baptism is symbolic.
the Bible teaches there is ONE BAPTISM. the Bible never uses the phrase “water baptism” and “spirit baptism” why not? because there is only ONE BAPTISM. in baptism, one receives the Holy Spirit as Peter says in Acts 2:38.
I, and someone else, have already shown you scripture that directly contradicts this claim. Cornelius quite clearly received the Holy Spirit before Baptism, which demonstrates how your idea of what the baptism even is is wrong.
As for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, this IS in the Bible. We also have shown these scriptures as well. It is your choice if you just want to close your eyes and pretend they are not there.
“for in one Spirit we were all BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY - Jews or Greeks, slaves or free- and all were made to drink of One Spirit”
IN ONE SPIRIT. We were baptized IN ONE SPIRIT into one body.
Anyone who has not been immersed in the Spirit is not a Christian. Anyone who has, is. For Jesus baptizes his own in the Holy Spirit.
I’m a baptist, and strongly believe in water baptism for a new believer - but it isn’t water that saves, as Peter noted:
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ...”
Baptism, according to Peter, corresponds to the flood waters that separated Noah from the sinful generation God destroyed. Water baptism has value for sanctification, but not for justification.
hmmm, RC’s are so divisive?
i better go back and check my 16th century history. did the RC’S leave the Protestants or did the Protestants leave the RC’s?
if you have a biblical challenge, bring it. if not, i suggest you stop reading posts by RC’s if they bother you so much.
we are saved by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit. we are baptized into Christ and into His death, in which we receive eternal life and reconciliation with the Father by His sacrificial death on the cross and His shed blood.
again, i ask, where does the Bible say baptism is symbolic?
every verse i read, says baptism is doing something very important.
as RR said, there you go again.
you introduce the unbiblical term “water baptism”, as if there is an “unwater baptism”. the Scriptures only use the term baptism, because there is only one baptism.
Peter flatly says baptism now saves you. he then explains it saves you not by the washing of the outward body, but of the washing of the soul.
did Cornelius repent and accept Jesus as Savior BEFORE he recieved the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit?
or did the Holy Spirit fall on all those who heard Peter speaking in Acts 10, Cornelius and his family as well as the Jewish believers who came with Peter?
did Peter command Cornelius be baptized as a first act of obedience?
does Ephesians 4 tells us there is one baptism or two baptisms?
Baptism is very important. No one is denying that.
Baptism in the Spirit is what makes us part of the body of Christ. It is what seals us to salvation. Without it, we are not Christians.
Baptism with water is not identical, as Cornelius proves. But water baptism DOES have value, for sanctification (separation from the sinful world) - as Peter taught.
But ONE BAPTISM refers to the one baptism that makes us Christian. The Baptism done by Jesus Christ. In the Holy Spirit.
I believe a new believer ought to be baptized right away, as was the custom in New Testament times. The only excuse for delaying is that unlike New Testament times, baptism isn’t known and understood by non-believers.
Jews and heathen alike had been baptizing converts upon their conversion in New Testament times, so the symbolism was well understood - and I say symbolism because no Jew and very few heathen would have thought that sprinkling with water had power apart for the working of God and the prior repentance of the one being baptized.
“Mikveh the Forerunner of Baptism
Along with the purposes already mentioned in the Torah, another use of symbolic purification by water became part of early Jewish tradition. This was immersion or baptism for Gentile converts to Judaism. Though the only Biblical requirement for entrance into the covenant was circumcision, baptism became an added requisite. No one knows exactly when or by whom the requirements were changed to include baptism, but it was before the time of Jesus. We know this, because debates on the subject of proselyte baptism are recorded between rabbinic schools of Shammai and Hillel, both contemporaries of Jesus. Whereas the school of Shammai stressed circumcision as the point of transition, the Hillelites considered baptism most important because it portrayed spiritual cleansing and the beginning of a new life. Ultimately the Hillelite view prevailed, as is reflected in the Talmudic writings. Maimonides, that greatly revered 12th century Jewish scholar, summed up all Talmudic tradition concerning converts to Judaism as follows.
“By three things did Israel enter into the Covenant: by circumcision, and baptism and sacrifice. Circumcision was in Egypt, as it is written: ‘No uncircumcised person shall eat thereof’ (Exodus 12:48). Baptism was in the wilderness, just before giving of the Law, as it is written: ‘Sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes’ (Exodus 19:10). And sacrifice, as it is said: ‘And he sent young men of the children of Israel which offered burnt offerings’ (Exodus 24:5)…When a gentile is willing to enter the covenant…He must be circumcised and be baptized and bring a sacrifice…And at this time when there is no sacrifice, they must be circumcised and be baptized; and when the Temple shall be built, they are to bring a sacrifice…The gentile that is made a proselyte and the slave that is made free, behold he is like a child new born.”
To this day, Gentiles who would embrace Judaism must undergo baptism in a mikveh ritual. The purpose of this ceremonial immersion is to portray spiritual cleansing, as Maimonides concluded in his codification of the laws of mikveh:
“…uncleanness is not mud or filth which water can remove, but it is a matter of scriptural decree and dependent on the intention of the heart.”
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/2_10/baptism
“the Scriptures only use the term baptism, because there is only one baptism.”
The scriptures clearly discuss Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Jesus and Jesus alone baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, and it is the Spirit that marks us as a Christian.
Water baptism IS different and distinct. It also always follows belief. It is in recognition of belief, not the cause of it.
The scriptures have been pointed out, and there are many more. What you choose to believe is between you and God, and God will judge you for it, as he will me for my beliefs.
We’ve discussed this at length before, and I have no desire to beat a dead horse. He who has ears, let him hear.
“did Cornelius repent and accept Jesus as Savior BEFORE he recieved the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit?
or did the Holy Spirit fall on all those who heard Peter speaking in Acts 10, Cornelius and his family as well as the Jewish believers who came with Peter?”
If Cornelius had known of Jesus prior, there would have been no need to send Peter to preach to him. While Peter was yet speaking, they were baptized with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues. The Jewish believers looked on in astonishment as the gentiles spoke in tongues.
This is the same phenomena that the Apostles experienced as well:
Act 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. (5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And Peter concludes (the event with Cornelius and the gentiles) with saying to the Jews “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?”
Therefore, they were baptized by the Holy Spirit, as promised by Jesus Christ, before they were baptized in water. This makes it clear that water baptism is not THE event, but a sign of that believer’s oneness with the Body of Christ, a precept that all Christians follow as the first act following conversion.
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