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To: spunkets
Where do you get the idea that man is the primary or even sole creator of human life? Sincere question: where do you get that? It's not Biblical. Eve says, after giving birth ot the first child, (Genesis 4:1) “I have brought forth a man with the help of the LORD.” Adam and Eve are the secondary human causes; God the First Cause.

“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?” (Job 31:15)

“For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)

It makes no sense in the light of this to say the Holy Spirit is only the Lord and Giver of "spiritual" life. He is the Lord and Giver of personal life, and a person (human being) is a composite creature both spiritual and physical: God gives personal life, which comprises both.

Humans participate in this via sexual intercourse. God does not force us to engage in sexual intercourse, nor does intercourse always result in conception. Very often it does not. But when it does, and life is transmitted to a new generation, we are cooperators with the Lord and Giver of Life.

You: "There need not be any cooperation with God at all."

I am perplexed by your response. I have never met anyone (except for an atheist) who says God is not the giver of life.

48 posted on 05/09/2012 1:52:02 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"Where do you get the idea that man is the primary or even sole creator of human life? Sincere question: where do you get that? It's not Biblical. Eve says, after giving birth ot the first child, (Genesis 4:1) “I have brought forth a man with the help of the LORD.”"

The story of Adam and Eve is parable, not history. In order for Gen 1:19 to stand, the image spoken of must be complete in every detail and w/o reservation. That means man has the exclusive power and right to create life in his image also, which is also the image of God. The image is that of a sentient rational being.

"Personal life...a person (human being) is a composite creature both spiritual and physical:

There is only life and life in any world is physical. A sentient rational being requires physical machinery to perform the various functions of sentience and rationality. The spirit is that nonphysical component which is resultant from the exercise of those functions and comprises the machine independent person and personality that depends on physical machinery for existence. There is no nonphysical spirit that exists animated on it's own, nor is any required to animate any physical object, plant, animal, or in particular- man.

"...when it does, and life is transmitted to a new generation, we are cooperators with the Lord and Giver of Life.

The image of Gen 1:19 is complete and given w/o reservation, that includes free will- which is an integral part of the image. There is no cooperation required. In fact, in order for free will to be free, it requires only the decisions and actions of parties creating the life and that may,or may not include God.

What man can not do is extend his life, or his progeny on his own. To do that requires knowledge and ability which was never given as those things are resultants from an instantiation of the image, not part of it.

" “Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?” (Job 31:15) “For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
It makes no sense in the light of this to say the Holy Spirit is only the Lord and Giver of "spiritual" life. "

Does he actually knit folks together, or is this parable? I know that the physics of this world is complete and allows for both life and procreation to exist as they are observed w/o any outside force at all. To understand the parable though requires that one know that the "knitting" occurred and was complete before the world was.

54 posted on 05/09/2012 8:19:51 PM PDT by spunkets
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