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To: GonzoII

The axioms are incorrect.

“The Catholic Church takes the view that if the soldier knew quite well that the cause of his own country was unjust, he would be guilty of murder...”

The soldier does not know this, because he cannot know this. He only knows his own actions and those of his peers that he is aware of.

A country cannot err, except at a heavenly level, because the people of no nation are never unified in their beliefs and actions (outside of Sodom and Gomorrah, apparently). Yet heaven may declare a nation to be unjust, but then it is up to heaven to do something about it.

The *leaders* of a country may indeed lead many of their country into unjust actions. But these unjust actions are still voluntary on the part of the lower level executors.

“I was only following orders”, is not a defense, but “I had to follow orders or I would be killed”, *may* be a defense, if someone is enslaved, unless they have not and do not take advantage of the opportunity to defect, if given the chance.

Yet actions in battle are to a large extent based on individual action and initiative. This is the real moral choice for a soldier: “I have captured an enemy. Do I return them for disposition to my leaders, or do I summarily execute them here and walk away?”

Thus it is at the individual level where a soldier may be righteous or wicked.


5 posted on 04/15/2012 8:39:58 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("It is already like a government job," he said, "but with goats." -- Iranian goat smuggler)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
"The soldier does not know this, because he cannot know this. He only knows his own actions and those of his peers that he is aware of."

Of course anyone with an informed conscience can be aware if a war is unjust granted there may be gray areas.

"A country cannot err, except at a heavenly level, because the people of no nation are never unified in their beliefs and actions (outside of Sodom and Gomorrah, apparently). Yet heaven may declare a nation to be unjust, but then it is up to heaven to do something about it."

A country being composed of men ipso facto can err. If a nation is not unified then those in good conscience cannot support a war believing it unjust. God would expect them to follow their conscience which they will be judged by.

"The *leaders* of a country may indeed lead many of their country into unjust actions. But these unjust actions are still voluntary on the part of the lower level executors."

If they realize the actions to be unjust they must not comply.

“I was only following orders”, is not a defense, but “I had to follow orders or I would be killed”, *may* be a defense."

Fear of death cannot be a defense of an evil action but it may mitigate one's moral responsibility.

Mat 10:28 And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.

"Yet actions in battle are to a large extent based on individual action and initiative. This is the real moral choice for a soldier: “I have captured an enemy. Do I return them for disposition to my leaders, or do I summarily execute them here and walk away?”"

Actions in battle like any where else are moral acts i.e. choices which we are responsible for.

6 posted on 04/15/2012 9:44:14 AM PDT by GonzoII (Quia tu es, Deus, fortitudo mea...Quare tristis es anima mea?)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
The Hebrew of the Sixth Commandment is Lo tirzakh, which is not to murder.

"...that ol' time religion. It's good enough for me."

7 posted on 04/15/2012 9:52:50 AM PDT by onedoug
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