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Dolan describes Obama’s about-face on contraception mandate
Catholic World Report ^ | March 31, 2012 | Catherine Harmon

Posted on 04/01/2012 6:16:01 AM PDT by NYer

The Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto has a fascinating interview with New York’s Cardinal Timothy Dolan, in which the president of the US bishops’ conference discusses the interactions he’s had with President Barack Obama over the last several months regarding the birth-control mandate handed down by the Department of Health and Human Services.

Dolan describes the 45-minute meeting he had with Obama last November, at which he understood the president to say that the Catholic Church’s religious freedoms would be protected as the health-care law was implemented:

“I said, ‘I’ve heard you say, first of all, that you have immense regard for the work of the Catholic Church in the United States in health care, education and charity. . . . I have heard you say that you are not going to let the administration do anything to impede that work and . . . that you take the protection of the rights of conscience with the utmost seriousness. . . . Does that accurately sum up our conversation?’ [Mr. Obama] said, ‘You bet it does.’”

The archbishop asked for permission to relay the message to the other bishops. “You don’t have my permission, you’ve got my request,” the president replied.

Dolan describes himself as “chagrined” at Obama’s apparent change of heart when, at the end of January, he received a call from the Oval Office telling him that not only would the birth control mandate be enforced, but that the bishops had until August “to find out how you're going to be able to comply.” Dolan says he told the president: “Well, sir, we don't need the [extra time]. I can tell you now we’re unable to comply.”

Dolan tells Taranto that for the USCCB, the primary issue remains religious freedom, not contraception.

What rankles him the most is the government’s narrow definition of a religious institution. Your local Catholic parish, for instance, is exempt from the birth-control mandate. Not exempt are institutions such as hospitals, grade schools, universities and soup kitchens that employ or serve significant numbers of people from other faiths and whose main purpose is something other than proselytization.

“We find it completely unswallowable, both as Catholics and mostly as Americans, that a bureau of the American government would take it upon itself to define ‘ministry,’” Archbishop Dolan says. ...

It also amounts to penalizing the church for not discriminating in its good works: “We don’t ask people for their baptismal certificate, nor do we ask people for their U.S. passport, before we can serve them, OK? . . . We don’t serve people because they’re Catholic, we serve them because we are, and it’s a moral imperative for us to do so.”

Dolan does say that a lack of clarity on Catholic teachings regarding sex is partly to blame for the recent furor over contraception; even many Catholics don’t understand the Church’s prohibition of birth control, and use it without scruple.

For this he faults the church leadership. “We have gotten gun-shy . . . in speaking with any amount of cogency on chastity and sexual morality.” He dates this diffidence to “the mid- and late ‘60s, when the whole world seemed to be caving in, and where Catholics in general got the impression that what the Second Vatican Council taught, first and foremost, is that we should be chums with the world, and that the best thing the church can do is become more and more like everybody else.”

Dolan also takes aim at the attitude of many American Catholics toward public service and religion, epitomized by John F. Kennedy’s assertion that, as Dolan puts it, “my Catholic faith will not inspire my decisions in the White House.”

“That’s worrisome,” Archbishop Dolan says. “That’s a severe cleavage between one’s moral convictions and the judgments one is called upon to make. . . . It’s bothersome to us as Catholics, because that’s the kind of apologia that we expect of no other religion.” Read all of Taranto’s interview with Dolan here.

TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: contraceptionmandate; dolan; hhs; obama; usccb; waronreligion
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To: NYer

What a surprise! The child of the father of lies lies to a CArdinal! Oh the huge manatee. Shirley this account is wrong. no mental giant like barry the bastard would lie to a Cardinal!

21 posted on 04/01/2012 7:26:50 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Little barry bastard knows such institutions in the name of a religion work to proselytize, that’s why he send so many of our tax dollars to Hamas! Of course, with a dead-soul media that truth never surfaces there.

22 posted on 04/01/2012 7:33:39 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: NYer

My first response re Tim Cardinal Dolan restrained by a lent-sized exercise of prudence and self-denial.

23 posted on 04/01/2012 7:46:11 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: NYer
There was no "about face."

This was the plan all along.

The bishops knew Ubama was a serial liar.

They knew they were being lied to, but the lie gave them plausible deniability.

24 posted on 04/01/2012 8:25:02 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: NYer; All
Thanks for posting.

This and other threads have prompted the kind of discussion among Freepers that needs to be going on all over America today.

As a matter of fact, this is the discussion which GOP presidential candidates need to have with voters for Obama's so-called "progressive" "redistributive" vision for America conflicts with his oath to uphold the Constitution.

The very arrogance of Obama's words with a religious leader lies in the fact that the Constitution which he swore to uphold withheld from him, and all elected officials, any power to infringe on religious liberty or the freedom of conscience.

Those who have bought into the touchy, feely "shared responsibility," or "obligation to others" seemingly benevolent descriptive terms used to persuade voters, never bother to tell us that the "progressive" vision requires a heavy-handed political regime to enforce its mandates, and that regime, in whatever combinations it may try to manifest itself, is precisely what the U. S. Constitution is designed to prevent.

That is why they are frustrated. The Constitution stands in the way of their custom-designed method of "changing" America from a free society to one in which some imperfect people plan, direct, manage and control all the other imperfect people.

That is their perverted vision of "justice," and they cannot enforce it without "changing" the Constitution, and they know that they cannot "change" it according to its own provisions; therefore, they must use Trojan Horses like "health care" and "shared responsibility" to trick "the People" into abandoning individual freedom.

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives [the executive, judiciary, or legislature]; in a departure from it prior to such an act." - Alexander Hamilton

In the first of the eighty-five "Federalist Papers," Alexander Hamilton emphasized that:

"... it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection or choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force."

The Framers knew that the passage of time would surely disclose imperfections or inadequacies in the Constitution, but these were to be repaired or remedied by formal amendment, not by legislative action or judicial construction (or reconstruction). Hamilton (in The Federalist No. 78) was emphatic about this:

"Until the people have, by some solemn and authoritative act, annulled or changed the established form, it is binding upon them collectively, as well as individually; and no presumption, or even knowledge of their sentiments, can warrant their representatives in a departure from it prior to such an act."

Last 5 paras. excerpted from

Our Ageless Constitution - Part VII (1987) "Do We Have a Living Constitution?" (Publisher: W. David Stedman Associates; W. D. Stedman & La Vaughn G. Lewis, Eds.) ISBN 0-937047-01-5       (Essay adapted by Editors for publication in this Volume in consultation with Dr. Walter Berns from Berns' article by the same title in National Forum, The Phi Kappa Phi Journal, Fall 1984)

25 posted on 04/01/2012 8:26:05 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: The_Media_never_lie
You must not be aware of the long list of Bishops who objected to that Notre Dame visit. Please investigate before you bash the Catholic Church,,,,,,please!

 Know that there were more bishops who spoke out against Notre Dame, but this is the list I have.

The bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of Notre Dame's invitation to Obama (in alphabetical order) are:

SOUTH BEND, Indiana, May 6, 2009 ( - Following is an alphabetical list of bishops who have so far expressed disapproval of the University of Notre Dame's invitation to President Obama to give the commencement speech and receive an honorary law degree May 17.  Included are links to the original source as well as coverage. 

Current count: 77 bishops

Bishop Joseph V. Adamec - Altoona-Johnstown, PA

Bishop John D'Arcy - Fort Wayne-South Bend, IN
LSN Report:

Bishop Samuel Aquila - Fargo, ND

Bishop Gregory Aymond - Austin, TX

Bishop Robert Baker - Birmingham, AL

Bishop Gerald Barbarito - Palm Beach, FL

Bishop Leonard Blair - Toledo, OH

Cardinal Anthony Bevilacqua (Archbishop Emeritus) - Philadelphia, PA

Bishop Lawrence Brandt - Greensburg, PA

Archbishop Daniel Buechlein - Indianapolis, IN

Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz - Lincoln, NE

Archbishop Eusebius Beltran - Oklahoma City, OK

Auxiliary Bishop Oscar Cantú - San Antonio, TX

Archbishop Charles Chaput - Denver, CO

Bishop Paul Coakley - Salina, KS

Bishop James Conley - Denver

Bishop Edward Cullen - Allentown, PA

Bishop Nicholas Di Marzio - Brooklyn, NY
Statement: )

Cardinal Daniel DiNardo
- Houston, TX

Archbishop Timothy Dolan - New York, NY

Bishop Thomas Doran - Rockford, IL

Auxiliary Bishop John Dougherty - Scranton, PA

Bishop Robert Finn - Kansas City-St. Joseph, MO

Bishop Joseph Galante - Camden, NJ

Bishop Victor Galeone - St. Augustine, FL

Bishop John Gaydos - Jefferson City

Cardinal Francis George - Chicago, IL; President, USCCB

Bishop Gerald Gettelfinger - Evansville, IN

Archbishop José Gomez - San Antonio, TX

Auxiliary Bishop Roger Gries - Cleveland, Ohio

Bishop Bernard Harrington - Winona, MN

Bishop Robert Hermann - St. Louis, MO

Bishop William Higi - Lafayette, IN

Archbishop Alfred Hughes - New Orleans, LA

Bishop Michael O. Jackels - Wichita, KS

Bishop Sam Jacobs - Houma-Thibodaux, LA 

Bishop James V. Johnston - Springfield-Cape Girardeau, MO

Bishop Peter Jugis - Charlotte, NC

Bishop Joseph Latino - Jackson, MS

Bishop John LeVoir - New Ulm, MN

Bishop Jerome Listecki - La Crosse, WI

Bishop William E. Lori - Bridgeport, CT

Bishop Paul Loverde - Arlington, VA

Bishop George Lucas - Springfield, IL

Bishop Robert Lynch - St. Petersburg, FL

Bishop Joseph Martino - Scranton, PA,2009.asp

Bishop John McCormack - Manchester, NH

Bishop Robert Morlino - Madison, WI

Bishop William Murphy - Rockville Centre, NY

Bishop George Murry - Youngstown, OH

Archbishop John J. Myers - Newark, NJ

Archbishop Joseph Naumann - Kansas City, KS

Bishop R. Walker Nickless - Sioux City, IA

Archbishop John C. Nienstedt - St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN

Archbishop Edwin O'Brien - Baltimore, MD

Bishop Thomas Olmsted - Phoenix, AZ

Archbishop Daniel E. Pilarczyk - Cincinnati, OH

Bishop Reymundo Pena - Brownsville, TX

Bishop Glen Provost - Lake Charles, LA

Bishop David Ricken - Green Bay, WI

Cardinal Justin Rigali - Philadelphia, PA; Chairman, USCCB Pro-Life Committee

Bishop Kevin Rhoades - Harrisburg, PA

Bishop Alexander Sample - Marquette, MI

Bishop Edward J. Slattery - Tulsa, OK

Bishop John Smith - Trenton, NJ

Bishop Richard Stika - Knoxville, TN

Bishop Anthony Taylor - Little Rock, AR

Bishop George Thomas - Helena, MT

Bishop Robert Vasa - Baker, OR

Bishop Michael Warfel - Great Falls-Billings, MT

Bishop Thomas Wenski - Orlando, FL

Archbishop Donald Wuerl - Washington, D.C.


Bishop Emeritus John Yanta - Amarillo, TX

Bishop David Zubick - Pittsburgh, PA

Bishop Donald Trautman - Erie, PA
Bishop's Trautman's statement

26 posted on 04/01/2012 8:30:10 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Obama worked a miracle here --tongue in cheek statement -- 100 percent of the Bishops stood up and spoke out against the HHS mandate. Where have you been?

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27 posted on 04/01/2012 8:33:30 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Alberta's Child

Evangelization has always been the main purpose of the priest. The final blessings of the new translation in the Mass say it all.

One is “Go forth glorifying the Lord with your life.”

I’m writing from memory here, but there are several others.

28 posted on 04/01/2012 8:36:22 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Alberta's Child
Let's face it ... the dirty little secret is that the Catholic Church in the U.S. has effectively become an arm of the state. IIRC the USCCB gets about $150 Million a year from the Feds.
29 posted on 04/01/2012 8:54:40 AM PDT by benldguy (Obama delenda est!)
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To: aces
....he uses sharp turns to deceive folks, gives them no time and wants to hammer them, look at the health care law and God knows what else he has slipped into the pool that we have not heard about yet..all I know is we need to get the scum out of the pool before he calls on his minions to do his dirty deeds...

The Resident has very little to do with anything beyond reading what is put on his teleprompters. He is the quintessential backgroundless front man.

30 posted on 04/01/2012 9:50:35 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (So, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts can't figure out if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?)
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To: Alberta's Child

Knock it off or you’ll force me to intellectually tear you apart. You won’t like it.

31 posted on 04/01/2012 10:01:55 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Alberta's Child

“Let’s face it ... the dirty little secret is that the Catholic Church in the U.S. has effectively become an arm of the state................These institutions” are nothing more than businesses that would close tomorrow if they could not avail themselves of government money. “

That’s not entirely true(only a little bit of it is true!).

Moat of the government money given to hospitals is for care of the indigent who cannot pay a penny for their health care. So, Catholic hospitals agree to give the free care - in an much less expensive manner than public hospitals do. I imagine this is the case with other religous hospitals too. As for local food shelves, most of the money is from donations from individuals and from businesses who are civic minded (another word for genuine charity).

The trouble with Obama and his leftist buddies is that they cannot comprehend the concept of freely given charity, and the benefits of private charity over the coerced excessive taxation of the citizens for public handouts.

Private donations are properly called CHARITY and this is not a dirly little word - but is a theological virtue. The Holy Spirit is involved in charity. Not so the liberal alternative which is the wasteful spending of tax dollars used more for consolidating a voting constituency than for genuine concern for the poor. Such a policy does not build up the spirits of the donors, nor the gratitude of the recipients, but rather resentments in the public and a feeling of entitlement in the recipients. Charity builds character in both the donor and the recipient, while the liberal alternative tears down these attributes. For that reason I believe the liberal viewpoint is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

32 posted on 04/01/2012 10:08:52 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Salvation
You must not be aware of the long list of Bishops who objected to that Notre Dame visit. Please investigate before you bash the Catholic Church,,,,,,please!

Know that there were more bishops who spoke out against Notre Dame, but this is the list I have.

Ok, sorry about that. I see that there are lots who have not completely lost their minds. I guess the ND president was star struck and liberal, and felt he just had to invite a rabble rouser who is against everything the Catholic Church is for, and for everything the church is against.

Other denominations have had similar problems with their flagship universities leading down the liberal path and away from the majorities. This is not just the Catholics!!!!

33 posted on 04/01/2012 10:39:57 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie (A free country and a lying media are incompatible.)
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To: Huber
Go ahead and get started.

I've had enough of these half-@ssed bishops who run around trying to curry favor with "Catholic" politicians and try to make these back-room deals to look the other way while those politicians pursue a political agenda that has no place in Catholicism.

34 posted on 04/01/2012 11:05:16 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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You notice that Islamic institutions haven't uttered much of a protest (if any) over this ObamaCare mandate? That's because they have no problem meeting the religious exemption under ObamaCare ... they really are religious.
35 posted on 04/01/2012 11:07:02 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Gumdrop
The problem the Catholic bishops face is that they've spent the last 50 years turning their religious institution into little more than a political action group. There isn't much "religious" about the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops at all. That's why: (1) they're located in Washington D.C., and (2) they've got their own registered lobbying arm. This is taken directly from the USCCB website (emphasis is mine):

USCCB Government Relations (GR) represents the USCCB before the U.S. Congress on public policy issues of concern to the bishops. GR coordinates and directs the legislative activities of the USCCB staff and other church personnel to influence the actions of the Congress. A specific set of issues is assigned to each congressional liaison staff person, who in turn, works in collaboration with particular policy departments at the USCCB.

Unfortunately for conservative Catholics like me, most of what the USCCB lobbies for has no basis in Catholic doctrine and is nothing more than thinly-veiled Marxism.

And now they feel betrayed by the Marxist-in-Chief? Cry me a river, Archbishop Dolan.

36 posted on 04/01/2012 11:17:57 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Gumdrop
On a related note, most prominent "Catholic" universities such as Notre Dame and Georgetown effectively ceased to exist as religious institutions after they became signatories to the Land O' Lakes Statement on the Nature of the Contemporary Catholic University in 1967. At that time, they explicitly acknowledged that their Catholic identify was subservient to their "academic freedom."
37 posted on 04/01/2012 11:20:49 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Gumdrop
It's not just public vs. private funding that needs to be considered when discussing true "charity" as a theological virtue. There is an enormous difference between charity in a theological sense and philanthropy as a means of personal generosity for some tangible human benefit.

Mother Teresa was engaged in acts of charity, while wealthy people like Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg engage in philanthropy. There is an absolute and unequivocal religious element to the former, while the latter two might be accurately described as completely amoral radical secularists.

I highlighted those items in Post #14 to demonstrate that even the USCCB must admit that much of the Catholic Church's "charity" isn't really built on any religious foundation. If that's the case, then these organizations (Catholic Charities, for example) really shouldn't be covered by any kind of religious exemption because they are little more than the Kiwanis or Rotary International ... with the word "Catholic" in their name.

38 posted on 04/01/2012 11:28:14 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child

And ‘Catholic’ democrats have learned nothing. They will continue to blindly vote for where their herd is pointed by their democrap and union masters.

39 posted on 04/01/2012 11:39:10 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Alberta's Child
That's why so many of the "religious institutions" the Catholic bishops are claiming to represent can't meet the terms of the religious exemption built into ObamaCare. These "institutions" are nothing more than businesses that would close tomorrow if they could not avail themselves of government money.

Wrong. Totally wrong. Completely wrong.

First off, Catholic elementary and high schools don't get government money. They "can't meet the term of the religious exemption built into Obamacare" because they employ non-Catholics and often serve non-Catholics.

Do you want them to stop? Get them immunized and indemnified against lawsuits citing job discrimination, then.

Catholic hospitals, like any other hospitals, have no choice but to take government money, because they are required by law to take all patients, including those whose payment for services rendered will come from government programs. Not taking "government money" means automatic bankruptcy. That's how the law works.

You want them to stop? Fine: change the law so they can turn people away who won't, or can't pay. We don't want to do that, but the economics are such that we'd have to.

And by the way, the same comment goes for them as for the schools mentioned above. They can't comply with your stupid "religious exemption" because they serve and employ non-Catholics.

So while you're at it, change the law so as to immunize them from the job discrimination lawsuits mentioned above, so they can be permitted to employ only Catholics and serve only Catholics.

But don't demonstrate how little you know of the situation by pretending that Catholic schools and hospitals are somehow at fault for trying to obey the law as it's currently set out!!

40 posted on 04/01/2012 1:04:19 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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