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To: NYer
...verifiable conduct, not asserted status, is the only question relevant here...

So is the author arguing that the woman claiming to be a lesbian is "asserted status", not "verifiable conduct"?

My understanding is that she had her girlfriend join her in her argument with the priest prior to the service. It seems to me that this constitutes verifiable conduct.

I wonder if the author would argue that Nancy Pelosi's public support and votes for abortion legislation constitutes "verifiable conduct" or not. I seem to recall other Canon law that allows for excommunication of elected officials that openly promote abortion.

7 posted on 03/13/2012 2:07:50 PM PDT by kidd
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To: kidd
My understanding is that she had her girlfriend join her in her argument with the priest

If the pair weren't groping each other and had their clothes on then there was no verifiable lesbian conduct.

8 posted on 03/13/2012 2:20:44 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: kidd
So is the author arguing that the woman claiming to be a lesbian is "asserted status", not "verifiable conduct"? My understanding is that she had her girlfriend join her in her argument with the priest prior to the service. It seems to me that this constitutes verifiable conduct.

No - nothing less than photos of the "lovers" in flagrante delicto constitutes sufficient proof in this particular case./S

Apparently, the priest is being punished for believing the lesbian's own "assertion" regarding her lifestyle.

Right from the horse's mouth:

Johnson said she was denied communion during her mother's funeral Mass Saturday, Feb. 25, when the presiding priest, Guarnizo, told her, "I cannot give you Communion, because you live with a woman and in the eyes of the church that is a sin." The Washington Archdiocese acknowledged in a statement that Guarnizo had acted inappropriately.

http://www.metroweekly.com/news/?ak=7144

After the incident, this woman loudly announced she would have the priest removed. The AoW wimpily complied.

10 posted on 03/13/2012 3:28:17 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: kidd; arthurus; BlatherNaut
There is no question that as a self-proclaimed practicing lesbian Barbara Johnson should not have presented herself for Holy Communion. This is governed by Can. 916:
A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.
But the question is whether Fr. Guarnizo was correct in withholding Communion. This is governed by Can. 915:
Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.
The correct interpretation of this canon revolves around the meaning of "manifest." My first impression was that this meant only that it was made clear or evident. Thus Miss Johnson's mere declaration to Fr. Guarnizo would seem to satisfy this condition. However after reading Dr. Peter's commentary on Can. 915 I tend to come down on the other side. Canon 915 in the present 1983 Code is a restatement of Can. 855 in the 1917 Code:
§ 1. All those publicly unworthy are to be barred from the Eucharist, such as excommunicates, those interdicted, and those manifestly infamous, unless their penitence and emendation are shown and they have satisfied beforehand the public scandal [they caused]. § 2. But occult sinners, if they ask secretly and the minister knows they are unrepentant, should be refused; but not, however, if they ask publicly and they cannot be passed over without scandal.
Here it is clear that the canon is addressing public knowledge of the sin. The object is that of avoiding the scandal of giving Communion to someone publicly known to be unworthy and also avoiding the scandal of withholding Communion to those not thus publicly known. It would thus seem that the meaning of "manifest" in Can. 915 of the present Code should be understood as publicly known.

The fact that Miss Johnson found it necessary to declare herself as a lesbian to Fr. Guarnizo would indicate that it was not publicly known and her declaration in the sacristy would not have made it such. For Can. 915 to come into play she would have had to made the declaration before the entire church.

In any case, what is clear is that the wording of the present Code is at fault. One should not have to be a canon law scholar and have familiarity with former codes in order to properly understand the present law.

Additionally, now that it has, because of Miss Johnson's own actions, become publicly known, it is incumbent upon the bishop to instruct her to refrain from presenting herself for Communion until she has publicly repented and received absolution in Confession. Again, since her unworthiness is now publicly known, the priest of the diocese should be instructed to withhold Communion.

13 posted on 03/13/2012 4:36:26 PM PDT by Petrosius
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