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To: NYer

This is awfully hard advice to follow. My husband and I struggled with this question and prayed about it. We decided not to try for IVF as it would violate our beliefs if there were fertilized embryos we could not bring to term. We are childless and I am now in menopause :-(

Meanwhile, my sister in law decided to go with IVF, and has 2 beautiful children. Everytime I see them I wonder what might have been. I am a devoted aunt, I can only hope that God has a plan for me there.


7 posted on 02/26/2012 1:46:14 PM PST by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender! REMEMBER NEDA)
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To: VictoryGal
A couple in my church had their daughter via IVF and she is in training to be an alter girl.

The church is really shooting themselves in the foot over this. Lot's of IVF pregnancies out there today.

I'm not knowledgble about this procedure but maybe find a way where the unused embryos won't be discarded or harmed??

Church needs to find a scientific solution in this case.

8 posted on 02/26/2012 1:53:59 PM PST by trailhkr1
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To: VictoryGal; trailhkr1
This is awfully hard advice to follow. My husband and I struggled with this question and prayed about it. We decided not to try for IVF as it would violate our beliefs if there were fertilized embryos we could not bring to term. We are childless and I am now in menopause :-(

For the very concerns you expressed, I posted the Catholic Culture article. Also, if you read through the other posts, you may have noticed that, like you, I also had to personally come to terms with the same problem.

Freeper trailhkr1 feels the church should come up with a solution and writes: "I'm not knowledgble about this procedure but maybe find a way where the unused embryos won't be discarded or harmed??"

Weak mortals that we are, our first inclination is to turn to modern science to resolve this problem and then celebrate when one is found. Our inane instinct is to dismiss what the church says as coming from "a bunch of men who don't understand".

As someone who was a teen when Humanae Vitae was issued, banning artificial birth control, I have witnessed the response by women in the Catholic Church, which mirrors the above statement. They attributed it to ignorant old men and proceeded to take the pill. Over the course of time, we have witnessed an explosion in breast cancer since legalization of hormonal birth control. It is also a proven medical fact that 1 in 3 women with arterial blood clots are on hormonal contraceptives.

With the introduction of IVF as a 'cure' for infertility, we have seen a similar response from catholic women. trailhkr1 raised the issue of unused embryos not being discarded or damaged. What is there to prevent this? One group, appealing to a similar view, implemented a program to adopt these "snowflake babies" as they are now being called. Essentially, the IVF problem is now exacerbated by the medical industry which, as Humanae Vitae well noted, the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law..

Insofar as "snowflake babies", the Vatican has also spoken out.

The Catholic Church has been very clear in its teachings touching most bioethical issues. Even though there is much objection by so-called liberal theologians, there has never been a legitimate debate touching the permissibility of abortion or contraception.  However, with regard to adoption of frozen embryos, there has been a lively debate even among very orthodox theologians, and today the Vatican settled that debate.

Today, December 12, known in the Catholic Church as the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patroness of the unborn, the long-awaited document Dignitatis Personae (The Dignity of the Person), was released.  The document addresses certain questions in light of recent developments in reproductive technology, adding to a similar document, Donum Vitae (The Gift of Life), which was released in 1987.

The document restates forcefully the Church's condemnation of in vitro fertilization (IVF) and all forms of artificial procreation which substitute for the marital act as the means of procreation.

The document also acknowledges the deplorable situation which has been created by the illegitimate manipulation of man's reproductive powers.  One particularly odious problem is the abundance of frozen embryos in storage in countries where IVF is practiced.  "There are," says the document, "thousands upon thousands of frozen embryos in almost all countries in which in vitro fertilization takes place."

Although their creation was illegitimate, the document addresses the question of "what to do with them," since they are already in existence.

The document rules out research on human embryos. "Proposals to use these embryos for research or for the treatment of disease are obviously unacceptable because they treat the embryos as mere 'biological material' and result in their destruction."  It adds: "The proposal to thaw such embryos without reactivating them and use them for research, as if they were normal cadavers, is also unacceptable."

The debate which has had staunchly pro-life ethicists on either side since the mid 1990s is whether women can offer to adopt the frozen embryos in order to give them a chance at life.  While the document notes that such proposals are praiseworthy, it goes on to explain that it is nevertheless impermissible.

"It has also been proposed, solely in order to allow human beings to be born who are otherwise condemned to destruction, that there could be a form of 'prenatal adoption'," says the document.  "This proposal, praiseworthy with regard to the intention of respecting and defending human life, presents however various problems."

The problems presented have to do with the intrinsically illicit nature of surrogacy, which the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith declares cannot be used even for a good end.

Thus the Vatican laments and abhors the fact that the current situation of the thousands of frozen embryos in the world represents "a situation of injustice which in fact cannot be resolved." 

It was for this reason, says the document, that Pope John Paul II already in 1996 asked the scientists of the world to bring a halt to production of human embryos since "there seems to be no morally licit solution regarding the human destiny of the thousands and thousands of 'frozen' embryos which are and remain the subjects of essential rights and should therefore be protected by law as human persons."

See the full document Dignitatis Personae online here: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/dec/08121201.html

When confronted with infertility, the challenge is to turn to God and trust in His response. That is the route I chose. 26 years ago, after years of prayer and a personal pilgrimage, a child came to us through truly extraordinary means and via an adoption that was totally free. Through this humbling and beautiful gift, I learned that trusting in God's plan far outweighs the strategies of man.

Dear VG, please consider this possibility in your life. I know a couple who raised 4 biological children born to them at an early age. When the children had grown and flown the nest, the couple had to decide - sell the house or fill it with other children. They chose the latter and adopted 5 siblings who had lost both their parents. It is never too late to welcome a child or two or three or even five ... into your home :-)

18 posted on 02/26/2012 2:33:35 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: VictoryGal

Your post really touched me. I was where you are (minus the menopause) 12 years ago. Today I am the mother of three beautiful children by adoption. We, too, struggled with the pain of infertility, but decided to trust in God and follow the “rules” of the Church. We have been blessed beyond measure. It was *not easy* to walk away from those medical options at the time, but I know that God had plans for me beyond biological children. You will be in my prayers.


41 posted on 02/26/2012 4:01:36 PM PST by lsucat
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