That's a pretty amazing comment for a mormon to make. Thanks for posting it!
Posted on 12/29/2011 6:19:00 PM PST by delacoert
... Mormon presidential candidates
... unprecedented media exposure and celebrating the 75th anniversary of the church welfare program
... the bright spotlight on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
... [oh, and did I mention] presidential hopefuls Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman Jr.
... "The Book of Mormon" Broadway musical
... the "I'm a Mormon" campaign
... [oh, and did I mention] news of the church's 75th anniversary of the welfare program and service outreach.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
"While our organization [Rabbinical Alliance of America] does not make any endorsements of political candidates, in view of the disastrous national decline in morality, we are compelled to condemn Mitt Romney's support and promotion of the immoral homosexual lifestyle and agenda," his statement said. "While we sympathize with those challenged by homosexual urges, or a desire for minors or adultery, they all remain prohibited activities that debase the practitioners and demoralize society. Gov. Romney over a long political career has earned the title: 'Dangerous Homosexualist' – one who constantly advances the militant anti-religious, anti-society, immoral homosexual agenda to the detriment of family people."
Attorneys for a polygamous family made famous on a reality television show have asked a Utah federal judge not to block their challenge of the state's bigamy law.
One of the sister sects of the LDS in Mormonism called the FLDS saw their prophet Warren Jeffs go to prison in Texas for life due to his polygamous relationships with underage girls. Yes I’m well-aware that the LDS church doesn’t consider the FLDS to be Mormons. However it is definitely true that the FLDS consider themselves to be Mormons and they believe in Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and pretty much everything that the LDS church taught until 1890. And its also true that Brigham Young and other early LDS leaders like John Taylor and Joseph F. Smith taught that if the LDS church ever gave up polygamy that the whole church would be da**ned to h*ll. Personally I think the FLDS are totally full of baloney. But it doesn’t help any of us in the Mormonism culture to distort who they actually are and their historical relationship to the LDS and Mormonism. It’s best IMO to present the facts honestly and in their full context.
One of the sister sects of the LDS in Mormonism called the FLDS saw their prophet Warren Jeffs go to prison in Texas for life due to his polygamous relationships with underage girls. Yes I’m well-aware that the LDS church doesn’t consider the FLDS to be Mormons. However it is definitely true that the FLDS consider themselves to be Mormons and they believe in Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and pretty much everything that the LDS church taught until 1890. And its also true that Brigham Young and other early LDS leaders like John Taylor and Joseph F. Smith taught that if the LDS church ever gave up polygamy that the whole church would be da**ned to h*ll. Personally I think the FLDS are totally full of baloney. But it doesn’t help any of us in the Mormonism culture to distort who they actually are and their historical relationship to the LDS and Mormonism. It’s best IMO to present the facts honestly and in their full context.
is effortlessly engaging ...
That's a pretty amazing comment for a mormon to make. Thanks for posting it!
It appears that by your statement there is sincerity, that’s not a bad thing.
What you apparently need to do is look at your very own statement.
Is is the flds that have remained to this day true and loyal to mormonISM, it is SLC lds that have broken away and formed a branch of mormonISM. It is SLC lds that chose not to stay with the original teachings, the conclusion then is that SCL lds are the off shoot not the main body.
SLC lds claim to true mormonISM is as bogus as its claim to Christianity.
Well said and surprisingly forthright. Thank you.
BYU Scientists Convert Matter Into Mormonism
http://www.theonion.com/articles/byu-scientists-convert-matter-into-mormonism,1681/
There was the initial secrecy. Assuming these polygamists were told the early history of the Mormon church (I'm going to use that term instead of LDS to avoid confusion with the current LDS church and the original 1830 "Church of Christ," which was changed to "Church of the Latter Day Saints" and the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" [no hyphen]) were available to them, they knew that polygamy was practiced by Joseph Smith and other prominent members of the Mormon church in secret for years until it was revealed under Brigham Young in 1852. The official church explanation, as I understand it, is that God told Joseph Smith that it was time to practice polygamy but not to announce it openly.
That's the justification for Joseph Smith (and others) publicly denying that he was practicing polygamy. The practice of polygamy and denial - and the need to prevent public disclosure of polygamy - directly led to Smith's death as a result of the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor.
So there was an institutional teaching that God had once instructed that the doctrine of polygamy.
Then, after the Prophet WW was forced to render the 1890 Manifesto so that Utah could become a state, the President (Prophet) and the Quorum of Twelve continued to enter into, to perform, and to bless polygamous relationships in America, Mexico, Canada, and elsewhere under the premise that they were following God's law, not man's. Even the 1904 Manifesto, after the Reed Smoot hearings, was only enforced against those who publicly denied the church's authority to abolish polygamy.
So the church again set an example that polygamy, which had been taught as necessary for exaltation and was still in D&C 132, was 'righteous' enough to be practiced notwithstanding the laws of man or agreements or announcements made by the church.
The "nod and a wink' treatment continues, as the website for the Attorney General of Utah states that the office does not enforce anti-polygamy laws, only fraud, child abuse, and similar offenses arising out of polygamy. And when asked about polygamy on Larry King, LDS Prophet Hinckley said in was permitted "on a limited scale" after the Saints "went West," which at best was misleading and dissembling, and more objectively, a lie to divert negative publicity.
And, without restating the quotes here, in addition to D&C 132, the Prophets and leaders of the church taught for years that polygamy wasn't optional. It was required for exaltation and to enter the Celestial Kingdom.
So. You've been taught that polygamy is necessary for exaltation. That's still in D&C 132. You've been taught (and Apostle Dallin Oaks lesson on it is famous) that Joseph Smith was acting righteously to lie about polygamy in the 1830s and 1840s, because it was necessary to protect the church and God had commanded it.
You likely know that that Church issued the 1890 Manifesto and agreed with the federal government to abandon polygamy, without having any intention of doing so. And that the highest officials in the church not only continued to bless polygamy, they practiced it. And the church condoned polygamy after the 1904 Manifesto - and I don't blame them - because it wasn't going to break up tens or hundreds of thousand of polygamous families, which existed into the 1960s.
If you believe in D&C 132, and what the Prophets have taught, and you know that the church has taught that it's permitted to adhere to God's commandments regarding polygamy rather than man's, is is so hard to imagine that the most fundamental believers among you would continue to adhere to what was one of the most fundamental tenets of the religion?
That, to me, is why there are so many fundamentalist, polygamist Mormon sects. Most of these groups are polygamist:
Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven
Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion's Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion's Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley's Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ "With the Elijah Message" (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)
I'm just not surprised. But I am finished.
You wrote: “SLC lds claim to true mormonISM is as bogus as its claim to Christianity.”
I agree with you. Now one thing about me. Yes I was born/raised in the predominant LDS sect. YES I still consider Mormonism to be my culture. But it would be bogus of me to claim to be LDS (especially since I resigned my membership in 2010). I also can’t see myself trying to claim/defend any of the basic Mormon-specific doctrines (since I’m well aware of the problems involved with so many Mormonism teachings). So with this is mind ..... you might ask why I still consider myself culturally Mormon. Well I spent my whole life up to age 28 deeply into it all. And its deep in my DNA. And it taught me to strive to be honest/truthful in all that I do. I certainly don’t claim to be perfect, not even close. But I shall try to be honest/truthful and thus due to all that I’ve researched about my culture’s roots I’m convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the Big 15 in SLC (i.e. Monson, Packer, ....) have a serious problem with habitual bad ethics. For example, a very good friend of mine (hereafter FRIEND) was once in a church leadership position where a young adult (hereafter YA) came in to see FRIEND about a situation that happened when YA was about 15. YA’s then-Bishop had been child molesting a few of the youth in the Ward. The church had kept it quiet to protect the reputation of “God’s true church” and had excommunicated the child molester Bishop. But nobody called the cops so the child molester was roaming free. Now YA was in lots of emotional/spiritual trauma several years later and coming to FRIEND for help. For starts YA wanted to talk to their parents since YA’s parents never knew what was happening to their child. My friend then called YA’s parents who were out-of-state and arranged for a call to take place for YA and the parents about an hour later when dad/mom could be in the same room. In the meantime FRIEND called church headquarters and spoke with an on-call official on duty to assist with questions like this. About 10 minutes later Thomas S. Monson (who was then #2 behind Hinckley and is now the church’s #1) calls back and tells FRIEND to not let YA talk to parents. My friend disobeys and YA talks to parents who in turn call the cops and eventually the child molester is behind bars and now on a child sex offender registry list and thus cannot be svcw’s kids’ Little League coach. However the story doesn’t end there because Monson tried to get FRIEND excommunicated for NOT obeying his order for FRIEND to obstruct justice. In a meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve they were moving towards this revenge but one of the Apostles told them that FRIEND did the right thing and that they might as well excommunicate him if they were going to excommunicate FRIEND. As a result FRIEND didn’t get excommunicated for his failure to obey Monson’s order to do obstruction of justice in order to ensure that a child molester could roam free. A few months later FRIEND was released from his church position and has never held another position in the LDS church. The Apostle who defended him has died. The Apostle who tried hardest to get him excommunicated is Boyd K. Packer and President of the Quorum of the Twelve and next in line to become prophet/president of the church. The man who directly tried to get my friend to obstruct justice is the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and all faithful LDS (i.e. temple recommend holders such as Mitt Romney or Harry Reid) must accept that he’s the only man on earth to exercise all priesthood keys/ordinances in the church.
Now whenever the LDS church does something right I will certainly have no qualms about defending them. But I’m not going to ever give them or anyone else a free pass to commit crimes.
BTW this example I gave was shared to me directly by FRIEND on July 13, 2011 8:19pm. And the “S” in Thomas S. Monson is “Spencer” not “Spanier”.
thanks
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