Posted on 11/08/2011 6:51:40 AM PST by greyfoxx39
I account to God though those God has called to stand in His place for such things. I see nothing unBiblical about that. Didn’t a certain husband and wife have to account to Peter for certain financial dealings? Yes, they did, and when they lied to Peter about it they were both struck dead. If you want to accuse anybody of coercion, perhaps Peter should be your target.
How typical of a mormonism apologist to mischaracterize a passage from the New Testament. But bless your little heart, you remain true to form.
Nice, yet again.......(your distortion is magnificent)
Let’s avoid that you called me a liar.
“their bishop requires that they show their W2s and he sends them a bill each moth based on those W2s.”
Probably the most outrageous statement I have ever read on FR. I have never heard of such a thing and I have been a member of the LDS Church since 2000.
BTW, when I was a Baptist and a Pentecostal, the preachers preached on and on about tithing. In fact, they made it sound like if you weren’t tithing you were headed straight for the eternal fires of hell. Despite their beating us up verbally, however, I always paid my tithe because it’s in the Bible.
I like it that the LDS Church does not pass the plate - ever. This is a sacred trust between me and my Heavenly Father. I tithe because I love Him and His Church and my Savior and the Holy Ghost - not because I have to but because I want to - out of love.
I said it was the experience of my lds family and friends in southern CA. I did say there are FR former lds that said similar things happened to them. That’s what I was told, I see no reason they should lie to me.
Just so you are aware tithing is talked about more in the New Testament than Salvation.
You are correct I do not think that the “plate” should be passed, offerings and tithes should be brought.
P.S. There are no paid clergy in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We are all volunteers and if we want to volunteer to pay our tithing, why do you care? I don’t care if you pay a tithe to your church or not. It’s really none of my business.
OH?
Then why is there a SETTLEMENT? HMMmm...?
So; you've just said it DOES have POWER TO COMPEL certain individuals!
No; they didn't!
Read it for yourself!
I’m a committed Christian, and have been since I was 17.
I have run two companies, and have been in business for 25 years.
Bar none, far and away, the very best people I’ve EVER done business with are LDS. You barely need a contract with these folks. Diligent, hard working, and they define ‘pillar of the community’.
On top of it they remain friends long past when your business with them is through. They remain friends even when the rest of your friends have left you - especially when you’ve taken a stand on something worth standing for.
My Lutheran Church, by contrast, is an ELCA church and popular with the local politicians. It’s a pit of vipers, and everything in life is relative. If it feels good, well, somehow, it must be right. On top of that they gossip like there is no tomorrow.
I’m not in the LDS, but the majority of the ones I know at least live their faith. Most of the Christians I know talk a good game.
In an earthquake, I’d rather be trapped in a Wal-Mart with ten LDS’ers than then ten guys running my church.
Should I leave my church, never. You don’t run when you should stand. Caving is more within the nature of the people I disagree with in that mess than it is in me.
You noticed, too; eh?
Give him a break; as it may have been TAUGHT to him that way.
Try THIS!!
In 1842, Joseph Smith received a series of revelations regarding the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth. His goal was the establishment of a theocratic kingdom at Nauvoo, Illinois where he would be the King of Israel, and the Council of Fifty would be the governmental structure which would prepare the way for the millennial reign of Christ. As part of the elaboration for this theocratic plan, Smith presented what would come to be known as the doctrine of "Blood Atonement." The concept behind this doctrine was that people who committed particularly grievous acts against the Mormons would have to shed their blood to atone for the sins they had committed. The Mormons, especially the Danites, used the doctrine of blood atonement as justification for the depredations they committed during their war against the Missourians. Orrin Porter Rockwell also used the concept of blood atonement as justification for his assassination attempt on Missouri governor Lilburn Boggs.(52)
When Joseph Smith was killed on June 27, 1844, his assassins created the circumstances for what has become known as the "Oath of Vengeance." A corollary to the doctrine of blood atonement, the oath of vengeance was created on the first anniversary of Smith's death as a formal prayer for God's vengeance upon those who shed the blood of the prophet's. Six months later this oath of vengeance became a part of the Mormon temple endowment ceremony.(53) The specific oath stated the following:
" You and each of you do solemnly promise and vow that you will pray and never cease to pray and never cease to importune High Heaven to avenge the blood of the prophets on this nation and that you will teach this to your children and your children's children until the third and fourth generation."(54)
This oath of vengeance was used several times in 1845 as justification for killing people who had been involved in the murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith.(55)
When the doctrines of blood atonement and oath of vengeance were dropped as part of church doctrine, fundamentalists saw this as yet another instance of the church caving in to political pressure. They still believe firmly in these doctrines. Kraut remarks that "Today, the doctrine of blood atonement is never taught and rarely mentioned. The idea of capital punishment has almost become eradicated by communists, psychologists, psychiatrists, and liberal educators. The Oath of Vengeance is no longer a part of the temple ceremony."(56)
(52)D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1994), 110-113.
(53)Quinn, 1994, 179.
(54)Kraut, 79.
(55)Quinn, 1994, 180-181.
(56)Kraut, 78-79.
Oh?
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
I guess I must have MISSED it somehow...
It shows...
“forced tithes”
There is no such thing for Goodness’ sake. Where is all this vitriol coming from about tithing?
There are an awful lot of MORMONs in UTAH that will disagree quite vehemently about this; after being taken in yet ANOTHER Utah White Collar Crime!!
Sandy, I just don’t get the glee that lds say “we have no paid clergy”, so what? (psst you do knows those guys in SLC get in benefits and wages of about 500K.) (psst again, tithing is supposed to in part support the clergy)
I don’t care if you pay your tithe based on man. I do care that it is not Christian and lds claim it is.
Don’t care if I am called a liar relating the information given to me by my lds friends and family. I do care that they are called liars.
I love this kind of information.
Let me tell you about my experience with lds.
When my aunt was in the hospital with a brain tumor, intensive care for weeks and my uncle taking care of her and four teenagers....NOT ONE person from their ward came to help NOT ONE....and he was the bishop.
My aunt was in the hospital more than a dozen weeks, NOT ONE (ok an exception on Thanksgiving some one brought them a pizza)
Could I have helped sure if I had known but I didn’t because after I said I would not become lds I did not see them for more than ten years. (called shunning)
No one from their ward helped out, they lost everything - bankruptcy.
Please don’t tell me how great these people are, apparently only great if people know about it.
Feel free to point out exactly what was mis-characterized and how... if you can.
I will gladly do so on the promise that you will sincerely read and contemplate the post> Deal?
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