Posted on 10/25/2011 8:08:31 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
If they music is in Spanish, we'd be right at home! (Except that I never wear pants other than for yardwork: I'm too stout.)
My granddaughter does not plan on taking the bar exam in Florida.
Christendom College is an excellent institution; they work their students hard, teach what’s really important and get great results. But the reason their classes are so small isn’t because they’re exclusive; it’s because they have a very niche market, and they’re struggling to fill their spots. They want a student body of 450, but can’t get there yet.
As for “TAC”.... WHOOPS! I thought you meant Thomas Aquinas College of Liberal Arts, in Merrimack, NH... I see you meant Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula, CA. TAC-LA is in very dire straits, having had to scrap all majors ecause they could only afford afaculty for general education... but for all I know, that ould have been very successful.
Yes.
If by “selective,” one means a school that 1) draws its student body principally from the far right side of the bell curve and 2) winds up rejecting many applicants, Thomas Aquinas College and Christendom are both moderately selective.
Average SAT at TAC is about 1900, which is pretty good. TAC accepts 75% of its applicants, which ordinarily suggests that it isn't all that selective, but I suspect that the folks applying are more in tune with that for which the school is looking, and you don't have large numbers of folks applying to TAC hoping against hope to get in, as is the case with many highly-selective schools.
Christendom suggests that the minimum SAT for which they're looking is about 1650. I don't find an average SAT for those admitted, but if I had to guess, I'd guess around 1800, which, again, is better than average.
I don't know very much more about TAC, but we have some experience with Christendom. Since we live in the Washington/Baltimore region and since we homeschooled through th grade and now my sons go to Catholic high school in the Archdiocese of Washington, we've been exposed to Christendom's recruiting for many years, and we've known a number of folks who've gone of to college at Christendom. As well, my son, currently a senior in high school, actually spent some time in their summer Latin immersion program one year (and had a complete blast).
Our impression of the students who have gone to Christendom is that they've generally been bright, perhaps top 10% of their class, but not brilliant. My son's impression of the school directly is that it's a great place if you're either a philosophy or a Classics geek (he's a Classics geek) and just want to have fun for four years. He didn't come away with the impression that the school is a particularly high-powered research institution, even in its relatively narrow range of focuses.
My son is not applying there.
We also are influenced by the opinions of a family we know, the father who is a tenured professor of philosophy at a reputable Catholic university. The opinion there is that Christendom really doesn't have the intellectual horsepower to challenge the best academic students. They have a pretty large family, the two oldest are in college and the third is my son's age and looking at schools. Christendom didn't make the cut for application for any of the first three. All three are National Merit Finalists or Semi-Finalists (the current senior won't know whether she made Finalist until the spring).
It's a good school for good students, but in terms of academics, doesn't compete with places like Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, or even Catholic University.
sitetest
Thank you, sitetest, that was very informative. We have not yet looked at private colleges on a closer level than, “This exists.” Anoreth was always going into the military, and Bill is looking at nearby state universities with very broad-based business programs. (Recreation business, music business, design business, hospitality business ... he doesn’t know what he wants!)
I think the 3rd child is the most academically gifted so far, which will take more effort to find the right program in the right place.
With the older guy, it's getting down to the wire. He's going to do Early Action at one school, so that has to be in by November 1. We just found out about a week ago that he needs two more SAT Subject exams for that school - either Physics or Chemistry, and one of the Math tests. Yikes. He's already taken three others, so that’ll make five SAT subject tests, as well as four APs so far, and his SAT. But the school that wants the two additional subject tests is his No. 2 pick, so he'll do the extra two tests. As well, the goal is to have all the other schools’ apps pretty much done and sent in the next couple of weeks so he can get back to concentrating full-time on school. He'll have four more AP tests in the spring. We joke that he's the most over-tested kid in America.
It's been a lot of fun over the last few years as we've watched him wade through his choices, and as it became apparent what choices he would have, realistically. But now it's down to the brass tacks. And waiting. And seeing who shows him [the most] money, LOL.
sitetest
Ever read the Bible?
Judaism is essentially a Theocratic religion. The Torah prescribes four different methods of capital punishment: death by stoning, death by the sword, death by strangulation, and death by fire (pouring hot molten lead down the throat). But capital punishment was very rare because of the stringency of Jewish Law (two witnesses to the same overt act, inadmissibility of hearsay, circumstantial evidence, and even confessions). Further the death penalty could only be administered when qorbanot were being brought on the altar and the Sanhedrion was sitting in the Chamber of Hewn Stones. Not too long before the second churban the Sanhedrion actually left the Chamber of Hewn Stones, making capital punishment impossible during the final years of the Second Temple.
I have read, however, that there were situations even in the Exile when Jewish communities were permitted, with the permission of the host government, to execute members. Of course even the Jewish community as a sovereign Theocratic self-governing entity under the Torah was lost a couple hundred years ago . . . but the state of the Jewish community today seems to tell us that we would all be better off it the old order were restored.
Best wishes! I was one of the students who took all the tests - started Trinity with over 30 hours of credit, and graduated with over 160. (”What does this have to do with your major?!?” my parents would say.)
Bill has the SAT in a week and a half, and then he needs to apply immediately to UNC-Wilmington and Appalachian State, or he’ll end up with no options but a coin flip between Central and Southern Piedmont CC (each four miles from our house, in different directions) for next fall. Not that it would hurt, imo.
Thanks.
Is this Bill's first shot with the SAT, or is he just trying to improve his score, in part or total? Do the schools to which he's applying do the SuperScore thingy (take the best subscores from all the times the student has taken the SAT and add them together)?
Trinity - in DC? I went to Catholic, practically next store. I guess I took the opposite approach from you. I graduated with 123 credits, the bare minimum for my program (psychology). I entered with six from my AP US History exam, and took typically 18 - 22 credits per semester, and then some each summer to graduate in three years.
In the second semester of my senior year, I made what I thought would be routine, redundant trip to the registrar's office to check to make sure I'd have enough credits. To my surprise, they'd failed to credit my six credits for the AP test. If I hadn't checked up on the status of my official transcript, they wouldn't have let me graduate!
sitetest
I didn’t like that they called it a “monstrous” church and said the clerestory window looked like a “cyclops eye”.
This is Bill’s first SAT. His PSAT score (to our astonishment) was just a hair short of National Merit Finalist: he got a certificate saying he was “commended.” We’re expecting his SAT to be outstanding, and if a few points are the difference between yes/no on financial aid, he’ll take it again in January. The universities will take the better section score, if he achieves them on different sittings. He can also get in-state tuition in South Carolina and Tennessee with an excellent score, if he decides on one of those.
I went to Trinity in San Antonio, Texas. Loved going to college; I hope to do it again someday. I might have been a lifetime student, like some of your “Occupy Wall Street” weirdos, if I hadn’t gotten married in my senior year and had to get a job!
I think Bill is a little afraid to leave home, in spite of his complaints about the crowding and the rules. (He was out hanging around the neighborhood until 10:30 last night, having mumbled, “I’m going out,” apparently, to Sally. He expected us to blow up this morning, but I just said, “Take your key next time,” and spoiled his Big Scene ;-). However, the new baby next year may nudge him out the door, even if he does a semester of community college and transfers mid-year. We can afford two years of state college - tuition, room and board - with good management, but we don’t want him to blow it if a year at a commuter school would have him fired up to do really well at a residential college.
Above-average vocabulary, though, and how many general readers would even know what the “cyclops eye” (should be “Cyclop’s eye”) means?
If Bill did that well on his PSAT, it shouldn't be too tough for him to find a school that will let him go free, or nearly so. I don't know about your state, but I know that the University of Maryland system is pretty good about offering attractive merit-based scholarships to Maryland students who do really well on the PSAT/SAT and have good grades (and they have processes to evaluate fairly homeschoolers).
Our older son is actually a Semi-Finalist (and I expect will be a Finalist in the spring), and he gets unsolicited offers every week for merit-based scholarships for all sorts of out-of-state schools that basically say, “Apply - if you're half as good as your PSAT/SAT score - you can come here for free or almost free.”
A couple of schools have offered tuition, room, board, and a stipend, as well.
As well, the really top schools (I don't know if Bill has an interest in them) also give the best financial aid. And they count family size when figuring out aid packages!
As we've looked for the older son, we've found that schools like Harvard, Princeton and Yale offer the best financial aid packages, and schools like Notre Dame, Washington University in St. Louis, University of Virginia and Johns Hopkins aren't slouches in that department, either.
It's not too late for Bill to apply to some really good schools, if that's what he'd like to do!
sitetest
Thank you! One of my friends is a database consultant, or something of that nature, part-time, and one of the databases she keeps up is a national scholarship listing: everything from your “left-handed low-income American Indian from Wyoming” to the Gatling Gun scholarship (anyone named Gatling or Gatlin who meets the basic standards can go to East Carolina University for free).
Bill is limited only by his own motivation. He probably could get into Yale or University of Chicago - they’ve been sending him stuff since his PSAT score was posted - but he might be paralyzed if he wound up in such an alien environment. He doesn’t handle new things well! If he wanted to try it, we’d support him, but I think he’s the best judge of what challenges he’s ready to face.
One of his friends from Boy Scouts - Eagle Scout, all the right grades and scores and AP exams, big star at Butler High - went to UNC-Chapel Hill and just wasn’t ready to deal with the independence. He only passed three or four classes in a year. I saw the same thing with some kids who got into Trinity on scholarship back in ‘84-’85, and it happened when my brother went to Duke in 1982. (He eventually had an outstanding Air Force career and got his Master’s from U of Md overseas extension while posted in England.)
I think it’s a lot easier, personally and financially, to take off from a cautious start than it is to recover from a disastrous overreach. Obviously that’s not every student’s position, but they show us what they’re really ready to tackle *right now*, if we’re paying attention. If Bill is ready to tackle Yale or Clemson or Appalachian State next fall, he’ll show us by getting the applications started (as we’ve mentioned many times ;-), just like Anoreth said, “I’m a graduate!” when she was 17, and went over to Central Piedmont, took the placement tests, signed up, and then called me to come over and write a check.
Hmmm... that's an interesting perspective.
I guess no one in our family ever contemplates the possibility of failure in academic endeavors.
Well, two good schools that would be academically challenging, that would give pretty good amounts of aid, but that wouldn't be as high-pressure as an Ivy or Hopkins, would be Notre Dame and Catholic in DC.
We have friends whose daughter is at Notre Dame. Very large, mostly-devout Catholic student body (we won't talk about the folks who run the place). She really loves the school. She's in the honors program, so her curriculum is a bear. But the regular curriculum, though still challenging, isn't too terribly tough, especially for a bright young man.
In fact, our friends’ daughter jokes, “Notre Dame is a good place for smart young Catholics to come who don't want to work too hard in college.”
The young lady's father teaches at Catholic, and her sister is currently at Catholic. Pretty good programs, but not too overly-demanding. Pretty laid-back environment. Lots of opportunity to be a devout, faithful Catholic without getting put down or insulted.
And not too far from North Carolina.
But, I now many of my older son's buddies are looking at state schools. If you like your family, it's nice to be near them through college. I lived at home and commuted to Catholic. I know our son's first pick is Hopkins, which is less than an hour away.
sitetest
It’s not a question of academic failure so much as the whole situation of resident university’s being too much for the student’s present maturity level. Some students are ready, in every way, for the college they choose at 18 or 19, but the graduation-rate statistics indicate that a lot more aren’t ready, in one way or another.
I wish Bill would pursue ROTC or a military enlistment. With his athletic background, the physical requirements would be easy, and I think the structure would benefit him greatly, just as it did my father, my brother and Anoreth. However, he can’t bear the thought of sacrificing his perfect rock-star hair ...
“However, he can’t bear the thought of sacrificing his perfect rock-star hair ...”
LOL!
He has a curler and a straightener! (We taunt him with verses of “Werewolves of London.”) And you should have seen the 15-and-up boys on the swim team this summer - as soon as they finished a race, they’d all have their caps off and be in a huddle primping their hair. “Does this look right?” “No, move that curl!” “How about now?”
Wow. LOL.
At my sons’ all-boys high school, there doesn't seem to be as much attention generally paid to hair.
I guess that's probably because the administration will give you a haircut if your hair touches the collar, and, well,..., there are no girls to impress!
sitetest
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