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To: FatherofFive
In Scripture, the Church is the final answer

No, in Scripture YHVH has the final word. I noticed you did not post a passage reference for that statement on church authority

1 Cor 14 Order in Church Meetings

36 Or did the word of God come originally(originate) from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord(Master).

The word of YHVH did not originate from men adorned in religious garments

Scripture says you basically shun that person who will not listen to the Church

I guess you didn't understand what YHVH meant when Paul quoted HIS Words in the 2nd letter to the ecclesia at Corinth

2 Cor 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial(Baal)? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

I will dwell in them
And walk among them
.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”[Lev 26:12; Jer 32:38; Ez 37:27]

17 Therefore

Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord
.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”[Is 52:11; Ez 20:34, 41]
18 “ I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty.”[2 Sam 7:14]

We are to put our faith & trust in YHVH Almighty, not the religious laws & traditions of men that are associated with that of Baal. Period.

Unless you believe there is a Church that has Truth

Hmm, a church that has truth? I know which ones do not.

Prov 30:5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

Nothing new under the "Son". What was prophesied in old is now revealed to those who TRUST(KNOW) YHVH and ask for HIS guidance that leads to HIS TRUTH.

Have you not looked at the global economy lately? Have you watched all the protests by those who put their trust in man to provide for their every need & whim? Is this what the church teaches? That man is to rely on man? That through govt legislation, stealing is legal & just? Well, since the church abdicated their duty, I guess it is true. The majority of truth is not in them. Yes, they say they know HIM. Yes, they say they believe Messiah came. But where is the trust? Where is the truth defined by YHVH in them?

YHVH's children are individuals. They are not denominations guided by the religious doctrines that came out of the carnal minds of men who write on blank pages because they chose to separated the "Word" from the "Spirit" our of hatred and greed.

160 posted on 10/20/2011 12:31:54 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
No, in Scripture YHVH has the final word. I noticed you did not post a passage reference for that statement on church authority

I sited them several times, you chose to ignore them.

"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The Church is the final authority. Clearly defined through Scripture.

164 posted on 10/20/2011 2:34:08 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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