Posted on 07/09/2011 6:32:12 PM PDT by Cronos
I understand. The forgiveness and non forgiveness of sins by the Apostles (and not the laity) is Scriptural, yet you reject it. St Paul is not Trinitarian by any stretch of the imagination and most of the early Church Fathers were at least subordinationist. St Peter was given the keys (and also the rest of the Apostles) but not the laity. I must conclude that you are picking and choosing.
Yet you provide no proof for any of your assertions. I must conclude that you are making stuff up.
Wow! That's a lot of churches!
And all in one little country!
Are they all led by the Holy Spirit?
What, is the Holy Spirit that confused?
Wow. They all agree on most everything. They even have agreements where membership and elders can transfer freely between them. Heck, they are all members of an umbrella organization that could be called a “denomination.” They must be really confused. Not.
Perhaps Scripture is insufficient for you. What is, then?
It's interesting that some amongst us think that God is unable to handle His Creation. :) Or on the other hand, that God is a celestial computer programmer that has predetermined everything.
I think that I'll stick with the Church of Christ, with belief handed down from Jesus, through the Apostles, to us.
The PCUSA voted to allow pastoresses and now gay marriages. the PCA will vote again to allow deaconesses or not and if that suceeds, the next is pastoresses and then finally lesbian pastoresses
Can you point out where he is wrong?
The Christian Reformed Church (CRC) split from the RCA (Reformed Church in America) in 1857. From the CRC there were splits like the PRC (Protestant Reformed Church) in 1924, the OCRC (OrthodoxChristian Reformed Churches) and the URCNA (United Reformed Churchs in North America). The CRC ended relationships with the PCA and OPC when the CRC had WPs. The PRC also had a split in 53 when half left to form the OPRCA (Orthodox Protestants Reformed Churches in America) not to be confused with the OCRCNA. The OCRCNA joined with the United Reformed Churches in North America (the URCNA) which had left the CRCNA in 1996
the Presbyterians in the US were split between the PCUS (mostly Southerners) and the UPCUSA (mostly Northerners). The conservatives split from the PCUS in 1974 forming the PCA. Then, in 1981, when the merger between the PCUS and the UPCUSA was in motion, the conservatives split from the UPCUSA and formed the EPC. And the original PCUSA split into the CPC, PCUS and OPC. The OPC broke into the BPC and I thought the EPC, while the CPC got split into the CPC and the CPCA and the UCPA and some from the CPC rejoined the original PCUSA before it split. The other EPC split from the BPC, which had split from the OPC (itself a split from from the original PCUSA - which should not be confused with the current PC(USA), a different body). That EPC eventually merged with the PCA.
The more important question is: Why do you believe a word he says? The only answer I can think of is that it fits your agenda to slander Evangelical Protestantism.
While the Roman Catholic Church might be a monolithic organization, it is just that: An organization. Nothing more. While Roman Catholics are united on the outside, true gospel believers, no matter what church they attend, are united as members of the body of Christ. And, that my FRiend, transcends denominational boundaries in a way that you do not seem to understand.
He knew and knows the perfidy in the OPC and hence has spoken out.
I dare say he knows it better than any lay person from the OPC or PCA such as yourself.
One can read Paul Elliott’s book, Christianity and Neo-Liberalism: The Spiritual Crisis in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and Beyond. That book examines in detail the false doctrine of salvation now being taught in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church
the problem as it's ruling-elder says lies that the OPC no longer believes in the Gospel, but distorts it irrevocably.
Hey, look, if you want to believe what one ruling elder says about something, go right ahead, I can’t stop you. For anyone else reading this, I’m pretty sure they can figure out one ruling elder doesn’t even deserve a hearing.
And, well, there you have it ladies and gentleman. The Roman Catholic can come up with: Appeals to one elder. Generic appeals to Scripture and “Tradition,” without any proof that what they are saying actually is in Scripture or “Tradition.” Don’t forget the “we’re older than you are” and “we’re more united than you are” canards. As for the latter of those, it appears Boston Roman Catholics are dealing with the same thing we Presbies are: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2746986/posts, and we’ll see if the anathemas are as forthcoming as they were at Trent.
This guy KNOWS the errors in the OPC, far far better than a layperson such as yoursef
From Trinity Lectures Foundation
| The Orthodox Presbyterian Church was founded in 1936 by about 135 people who were offended by the lack of discipline in and doctrinal errors of the Presbyterian Church in the USA. . But early in its history the OPC fell under the influence of an agnostic view of propositional revelation emanating from Westminster Seminary -- a view that said that there is no identity of content between the \"Christian system\" of theology, meaning Reformed confessions of faith, and the \"divine system\" of theology, known only to God. This agnosticism has now brought the OPC to the point of falling. Like its predecessor, the PCUSA, the OPC has failed to discipline teachers who teach contrary to Scriptures and the Confession of Faith, and it has endorsed un-Biblical teaching about Scripture and the Gospel. |
| Despite the painstaking efforts of many fine Christians within the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC), the leaders of the OPC maintain a suicidal course. Despite the departure of congregations and individuals from the OPC, due to the leaders' collective inability to resolve the current justification controversy Biblically, the OPC leaders continue to advance doctrines that contradict Scripture. The OPC is, in the words of its late historian Charles Dennison, "obviously inept, bumbling, [and] confused."1 That confusion now appears to be fatal. At this point in its history, the confessional affirmations of the OPC have no more credibility than the confessional affirmations of the PCUSA from 1936 to 1967. One of the commissioners to the 2004 OPC General Assembly made this very point: "There was a time when, if the OPC said it, it was accepted. The 2003 deliverance that accompanied the decision to acquit [John Kinnaird] destroyed forever that our words will not be questioned. The PCUSA always said that the [Westminster] Confession was their confession (even as they were denying it)." |
The resurrection of the dead in general, therefore, is primarily a judicial act of God."[13] Stated simply, the resurrection is not the penultimate event prior to the final judgment; the resurrection is the final judgment.
They believe that resurrection is a replacement for Judgement and if you are resurrected, you will not go to hell
There are several articles on the OPC website which affirm the resurrection of the dead, and then speak as if it weren't there or it didn't matter. Of course, it might just be the writers' confusion over just who is going to be resurrected (prejudged to salvation) and who isn't since they believe that the act of resurrection is a substitute for the Judgement of God.
After all if they elieve that the act of resurrection is a substitute for the Judgement of God, then nobody in hell gets Judged in the OPC universe.
And nowhere in Christianity does it state anything about the resurrection of those Judged to Heaven versus the non resurrection of those Judged to hell. in the OPC universe those prejudged to hell do not get resurrected at all.
Cronos, if you own a business, and one of your disgruntled former employees starts a campaign against you, remind me to believe him. After all, it’s a short-lived organization with only a few employees, and, certainly, we only need one to know what’s going on there.
And in a 10,000 adult, 80-year old organization like the OPC, the number of C-level execs is small, especially the number of living ones.
This guy and the others working with him to save the people running from the OPC are in a position of knowing the errors that are there in the OPC.
The book makes good reading and points out in a calm, detailed manner how the OPC is headed on the same path as the PCUSA.
Do read the site and you'll see this same thing.
The OPC is not a place for a PCA person to run toward
And he points out how it has lost its moorings and been taken over. This is not surprising considering its origins and if one can vote on core-beliefs.
it has already had two splits - the EPC and BPC so far and it is inching on the road to the level of the PCUSA apostasy.
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