Posted on 06/08/2011 1:58:47 AM PDT by Cronos
TENSIONS have surfaced at the Presbyterian General Assembly over the position of the Church of Scotland on the acceptance of ministers who have homosexual relationships.
The Presbyterian Church in Ireland is traditionally aligned to its mother church in Scotland, The Kirk, which at its recent general assembly voted 351 to 294 to effectively do away with the ban on gay clergy.
Outgoing Presbyterian moderator the Rev Dr Norman Hamilton, who attended the Edinburgh gathering, expressed his unease over the Scottish move in a candid report of his visit to the Kirk assembly.
Dr Hamilton, who stood down as moderator on Monday night after a year in office, said from the outset of the Edinburgh debate he sensed the more “liberal” option would be accepted by Scottish delegates.
He said whatever the nuances over the debate and decision reached, the public understanding was expressed in the opening words of the leader article in The Scotsman newspaper the next day.
It stated: “It was a long and understandably passionate debate, but finally last night the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland voted to allow presbyteries across the country to choose gay or lesbian ministers.
“The vote among the commissioners to throw out the ban on gay clergy brought in two years ago was clear, 351 to 294, but showed how decisive the issue has been in the Kirk.”
However, the moderator of the Church of Scotland, the Rev David Arnott, who is the main guest at the Belfast assembly this week, told his Irish counterparts yesterday that The Scotsman’s interpretation of the decision taken was not entirely accurate.
He insisted the matter had been sent out to the Scottish presbyteries for wider theological debate and the church would have to re-visit the core issues under consideration.
A resolution highly critical of the Church of Scotland’s attitude to clergy having same-sex relationships will be proposed today at the Belfast general assembly by a former moderator, the Rev Dr John Lockington, and Lurgan minister the Rev Nigel J McCullough.
This calls on the general assembly to endorse the actions of the general board in relation to “the special commission on same-sex relationships and the ministry” of the Church of Scotland and views with concern the deliverances of the general assembly of the Church of Scotland on the report of the special commission.
The Presbyterian Church in Ireland is more conservative than the Church of Scotland on Biblical interpretations of homosexuality and there is no clamour within Irish Presbyterianism to adopt a more liberal stance.
There also remains a strong body of traditionalist opinion within the Scottish church on the matter and any definite decision taken by The Kirk would deeply split congregations across the country.
Dr Norman Hamilton, in his report, said there is a widespread view that the traditionalist position in Scotland on the ordination of those who are gay or lesbian was rejected for what was described as the “revisionist” position.
“Those who are advocating this latter position included one minister who spoke warmly of the contribution that bisexuals and those who are transgendered can make to Christian ministry, whilst another spoke of how the Bible had been shown up to be wrong in the past and that we now know better,” said Dr Hamilton.
“The traditionalist view was articulated by many in The Kirk, and by every visiting delegate who spoke, myself included, and there is no doubt that many of those who hold this position in the Church of Scotland seemed seriously demoralised and deeply apprehensive about future developments.”
God gave us clear instructions, but He has been outvoted?
“Tension in church over stance on gay ministers”
I beleive, according to former Sentator Craig, the appropriate stance is a wide one.
that’s funny, but I really find it disturbing the way gays are infiltrating into everything and the word is infiltrating, trying to make the sin seem normal. I don’t view this as a purely Presbyterian problem but one affecting all us Christians as a whole.
well the solution is simple. I feared this too, so I jumped ship to the Catholic church. Only game in town.
How can there be a Theological debate on Homosexuals?
There is no debate. Homosexuality is not accepted for the laity, much less for the Pastors.
I cannot help it that these people have a sexual problem any more than I can help it that Adultery is a sin, but the fact is there.
Wheat and Tares.
The Catholic Church isn’t the only game in town, there are still Fundamentalist, Oriental and Orthodox Churches, but I understand what you mean. The Protestant denominations are failing badly at their task of keeping true to the Word.
What I see as sad is that we do nothing about this. I as a Catholic cannot take pleasure in this. If this should happen in my neighborhood I should be out picketing WITH my Christian brothers against this usurption of their churches. Whatever be our doctrinal arguments, however serious, we must recognize the common foe
Whatever the case though, you're correct in saying that whatever our doctrinal arguments are, we still have to recognize and unite against our common foe, remembering that ultimately this is a battle that only Christians can fight as we're the only ones equipped to deal with the root of the problem.
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. - Eph 6:11-13 KJV
When a Catholic priest has a sexual relationship with a sixteen-year-old boy, they scream, “pedophilia,” arrest the priest (if he’s under 80) and sue the church for billions.
When a Presbyterian priest has a sexual relationship with a sixteen-year-old boy, they weep about how beautiful it is that the two christians are exploring their sexuality together.
And whose policies get Alex Murphy and Gamecock all upset?
Why I never bothered postign about PCUSA’s sex scandals: they aren’t a scandal. I posted about the SBC because they are considered scandals, and the SBC is worth trying to save, therefore. The OPC and PCA is too small to be relevant to anything or anyone.
>> Presbyterian priest <<
And yes, before anyone gets into a fit about how little I know about Presbyterians, “priest” is an Anglicization of “presbyter.”
And, yes, I consider those who try to stick within a denomination and fight to correct its path to be heroic compared to those who simply splinter off, until the point is reached, as it has in the Episcopalian Church, when the inidividual congregations are no longer allowed to be Christian.
(Of course, the most heroic thing is to seek out the true Church.)
And, yes, I consider those who try to stick within a denomination and fight to correct its path to be heroic compared to those who simply splinter off, until the point is reached, as it has in the Episcopalian Church, when the inidividual congregations are no longer allowed to be Christian.
(Of course, the most heroic thing is to seek out the true Church.)
When a Catholic priest has a sexual relationship with a sixteen-year-old boy, FRoman Catholics will defend the priest and the Catholic church, saying that it was consensual, that the boy seduced him, that it was legal, that the priest does not have a pathological nor a mental disorder, that it's not pedophilia, that Protestant clergy have more homosexual relationships than Catholic clergy do, and that the messenger is trying to bash the Catholic Church.
We get it, we get it. Catholics want their priests to be free to have their trysts, without interference or complaint.
No, the difference is that you guys make this out to be an indictment of our faith. We don’t make the prevelance of gays in your denomination as an indictment of your faith, do we? Or should we?
Why do ministers of the Kirk wear kilts?
Because choirboys can hear zippers.
What do they wear under the kilts? ;-P Have you ever seen “Carry on up the Khyber”?
“As it was in the days of Lot.” We are heading toward a one-world church without a cross were everything is allowed and those who dissent will be classified as haters.
Well that’s true, but the problem with the protestants is that they pretty much all vote on doctrine.
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