Posted on 05/09/2011 2:34:18 AM PDT by Cronos
As the Presbyterian Church (USA) looks poised to remove a prohibition on ordaining gay people, local Presbyterians are reflecting on what the change could mean for them.
...
The proposed change replaces fidelity and chastity requirements with more general guidelines instructing governing bodies to “examine each candidate’s calling, gifts, preparation and suitability for the responsibilities of office.”
...“What it means is that we can no longer categorically eliminate a group of people from ordination,” Schempp said. The Rev. Davis Price of Covenant Presbyterian sees the culture-Bible dichotomy as being nuanced.
.. Price welcomes the potential for greater inclusion of gays in leadership, and said many in Covenant feel similarly.“People felt it to be an unjust prohibition,” he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at lubbockonline.com ...
Here we go again, with the gay seminarians’ cabal.
Actually it’s deeper than this — there was a thread that pointed out how gay millionaires are spending a lot of money to push their agenda into all Christian denominations
“If the Presbyterian Church is smart — if any church is smart — they will welcome any members, because if they don’t, they’re going to be running off some of the best people they’ve got.”
I often sit and ponder the state of the mainline church in America today, and wonder how in the world it got to this point. I have come to the conclusion that people today in and outside the church believe more in the need to be inclusive of fringe elements than they do in the validity of the Bible. They are so afraid of being called a “bigot” and that to have any reservations about the acceptance of gay people into the clergy is to be in the same league as those mythical bullies who bash gay people on the head with sticks. The Presbyterian Church, the mainline version anyway, is no longer “smart”, it is traveling a road that does not lead anywhere but down.
Thank you, though, just a point — as I said in post 1, this is not just a “Presbyterian problem” — I am not Presbyterian — I see this as an attack on Christians everywhere, all of us.
I understand the gay PAC's, and how they contribute to "anyone" who will run against a strong conservative local-office candidate, in order to cut off the conservatives at the knees.
But churches? Subvert a church?
I have a lawyer friend (we are both Presbyterians, and both against gay ordination). He was saying that it probably won’t be long before it is not a decision made within a church, but a legal decision made for the country that ANY group (church, business, etc.) can not “discriminate” based on gender, sexual orientation, faith, race, or creed, etc.
Not sure why a muslim would want to become a Presbyterian preacher, (or how that would work really) - but it almost sounded like that would be a possibility. Of course, I have come across some “Christian” preachers that don’t believe in the virgin birth or resurrection of Christ, or miracles, etc. Not sure how they got accepted either. (And I’ve asked - and they didn’t fake it either just to get their papers!) Hard to believe! “Okay, your thesis describing how Jesus was just a great guy was really good. Here is your Ordination Certificate!”
“I see this as an attack on Christians everywhere, all of us.”
It is truly disturbing how many churches are in league with this. I was on vacation last year on Cape Cod and attended service at a beautiful 200+ year old Congregational church( United Church of Christ). The minister discussed in his sermon that gays must not be excluded from ministry etc. I felt I could not listen to what amounted to demonic allusions and I left. I felt so thoroughly depressed when I contemplated the centuries of God centered worship in this church of the Pilgrims, and its demise today. I also have had many conversations with church members of Episcopal and Methodist churches who see it is as wrong to maintain that homosexuality is sin. They refuse to see it as such. Therefore the churches they belong to are not merely innocuous places to meet on Sunday mornings, but given their embracing of sinful practices, are really venues for the devil to take hold. Anyone who considers himself a Christian should exit these places immediately.
Well, why don't they resign from their posts and start their own religion? Now, I think L Ron Hubbard was a kook, but at least he had the honesty to start his own religion.
‘But churches? Subvert a church?”
Not that difficult if you have the money. Many small churches have very tight finances. Some of those will give significant weight to the wishes of people who give big dollars.
I was part of a church where a wealthy member virtually owned the church. She didn’t want a big church so they drove away members. Endless stories but Satan is quite busy in our churches.
“Of course, I have come across some “Christian” preachers that don’t believe in the virgin birth or resurrection of Christ, or miracles, etc”
I’ve been told by Presbyterian minister that the percentages of such preachers is quite high.
ROMANS: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers,
30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy.
32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
Gn 1:27 male and female God made them
Gn 2:21-24 man and woman become one Man and woman are made for each other in ways that homosexual "union" can only imitate.
Gn 19:12-25 wicked of Sodom destroyed
Lv 18:22 abomination, death
Lv 18:29 abomination, death
Lv 20:13 abomination, death
Ez 16:49-50 guilt of Sodom = abomination
Rm 1:27 shameful; lawless
1 Tm 1:9-10 shameful; lawless
1 Cr 6:9-10 shall not inherit kingdom
Ju 1:7 immoral, unnatural, for eternal fire
I respectfully disagree with this conclusion, sue, because I see that as people exit the mainline churches and form smaller and smaller communities, we become easier to pick off.
Let me give an example of what I mean. I've been reading up on Polish history and if we look at Poland under the communists we see that they feared the Church as "the only true Opposition" and their fears were well founded in the case of Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II).
We should not leave these churches to die out, but must fight alongside our brethern.
The more conservative churches are the ones that are growing. Let the "mainline" churches die, they have ceased being Christian and the only value they have left is in the real estate.
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Very interesting comments on the thread. And this does not just affect Christians, it affects every person of faith, and any person who is opposed to the tyranny of the homosexual agenda.
Here you go:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2717123/posts
Gay donors fuel Obama’s 2012 campaign
If a sect chooses not to be faithful to the standard of our Christian faith(The Bible) I have no control over their decision. But I do believe the Bible gives clear irrefutable guidance as to how the Christian ought respond Matthew 18:15-19. Note: I find nothing in Scripture that suggests a believer ought remain in a congregation that is NOT faithful to Scripture-but deliberately misleads and deceives the congregation.The congregation ought vote with their feet and by their tithes.
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Agreed.
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.This reads about a person neglecting the community, the church. One does not leave the community, rather one throws out from the community the one who neglects16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17nd if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
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