San Francisco Presbyterians to allow gay clergy

windycitymediagroup ^ | 14-04-2011 | Windycity

[Cronos]

espite the crowing that one may hear or read, the actual numbers show a large number leaving the Presbyterians as a whole

	2009 membership	2010 membership	Lost	Gained
PCUSA	2,934,952	2,844,952	90,000
PCA	335,000	340,000	5,500
OPC	21,123	21,530	407
		Disappearing Presbyerians	84,100

The PCA is 300,000 in membership

2011 Church Membership: Southern Baptists Decline; Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons Increase

And PCA statistics provide a blurry snapshot says that Total membership in 2009 – 346,408

[Cronos]

The Presbyterians may allow it, but God doesn’t, and expects them to know better.

-- it's not all Presbyterians mind you, just the PCUSA/OPC/PCA.

[Cronos]

Some more links for you:

The OPC is a rabidly anti-Semitic group that has lately been trying to promote it's anti-Israeli message on FR with posts like:

1. Easter greetings from Israel - a hoax video aiming to smear Jews and that is as disgusting as the Protocols of the Elders
2. Jerusalem, the have-not whore
3. Israel -- where there is a comparison of Biblical Israel to Modern Israel -- and you can guess it's not a pleasant one
4. All Israel will be Saved, but not all Israel
5. Jerusalem, Mother of all Harlots
6. The restoration and conversion of Israel -- this soon descends into a fre for all anti-semitic fest

What is disgusting is that this group (the OPC/PCA) pretends to be Christian while spouting it's hatred for Jews and Christians alike

[Cronos]

Some more links for you:

the OrthodoPresbyterian C, a sister group of the PCA. Both groups are stridently anti-Jewish. Their doctrines say that According to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC members " should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. " also they seem to promote the idea that Jews are not the chosen people

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The PCUSA is very different from the OPC which doesn't even ordain women let alone gay clergy.

But as Roman Catholics have taught us, let's look at the source of the article --

CELEBRATING 25 YEARS OF Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender NEWS

Regardless, the PCUSA will self-destruct if this change passes and the beneficiary will be the OPC and PCA who are ready to give rest to Christ's sheep.

[RnMomof7]

LOL , Catholics are bleeding adult members, but you need to worry about yourown church ..we will worry about ours .. and look once again at your numbers they indicate a growth in PCA and OPC

2009= 335,000 2010= 340,000 that is a gain as far as I can see. Can the RC that developed the chrt read numbers??? LOL

But one way or another Catholics can not seem to grasp a protestant concept of MEMBERSHIP ..our church may have 200 regular attenders.. but only 100 members..

Membership numbers reflect people that want to do more than attend.. they want to be placed under the authority of the church elders ... unlike the RC that claims even infants as members.. Baptized babies are not members..neither are the teens that come every Sunday for Sunday school .. or many of actual attenders

[RnMomof7]

Exactly -- that's what's happening in Gamecock's group. Gamecock -- how's the deaconess ordinations coming along?

LOL..one needs to check their facts before making a laughing stock out of themselves

[RnMomof7]

Who needs God when you have democracy. Or if one has a church with a head prophet .... who is another christ.. one christ being pretty much like the other I guess

[Gamecock]

As I have told you before, I am not a Presbyterian.

Why you insist on making false claims about other FReepers is indeed a mystery.

[Jack Hydrazine]

I am sure there are self-hating Christians as much as there are self-hating Jews.

[Cronos]

Oh, the PCUSA isn't anti-semitic like the OPC?

The OPC is a rabidly anti-Semitic and anti-Christian group that has been trying to promote it's anti-Israeli message on FR with posts like:

1. Easter greetings from Israel - a hoax video aiming to smear Jews and that is as disgusting as the Protocols of the Elders
2. Jerusalem, the have-not whore
3. Israel -- where there is a comparison of Biblical Israel to Modern Israel -- and you can guess it's not a pleasant one
4. All Israel will be Saved, but not all Israel
5. Jerusalem, Mother of all Harlots
6. The restoration and conversion of Israel -- this soon descends into a fre for all anti-semitic fest

What is disgusting is that this group (the OPC/PCA) pretends to be Christian while spouting it's hatred for Jews and Christians alike

[Cronos]

again and again the OPC tries to pretend being Protestant. Protestants are Christians — quite unlike your non-Chrisitan group the OPC.

[Cronos]

As I said, despite the crowing that one may hear or read, the actual numbers show a large number leaving the Presbyterians as a whole

	2009 membership	2010 membership	Lost	Gained
PCUSA	2,934,952	2,844,952	90,000
PCA	335,000	340,000	5,500
OPC	21,123	21,530	407
		Disappearing Presbyerians	84,100

The numbers are dropping by 84,100 a year. As all three of these groups turn more and more leftist/communist, more will leave.

Your non-Christian group is dying out -- because it is not based on Christ. The fruits of the OPC are as evil as the group -- anti-semitism being one of these

[Cronos]

This is what an ex-Ruling Elder of the OPC says about this group:

From the Trinity Foundation

• the Report continues the conspiracy of silence that has prevailed in the OPC for three decades. It leaves the erroneous impression that the serious doctrinal problems are outside the denomination, not within it. The Report gives false comfort to those who think the OPC is still a bastion of Biblical orthodoxy. On the contrary, the Report, and the 2006 General Assembly’s commendation of it, both maintain the OPC as a safe haven for those who teach error
• Men within the OPC, including at least one member of the Committee itself, teach heresy regarding the Gospel and many other fundamentals of the faith.
• The OPC long ago ceased to proclaim the one true Gospel to the exclusion of all false gospels
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church has abandoned the marks of a true church of Jesus Christ
• The Orthodox Presbyterian Church was founded in 1936 by about 135 people who were offended by the lack of discipline in and doctrinal errors of the Presbyterian Church in the USA. .
  But early in its history the OPC fell under the influence of an agnostic view of propositional revelation emanating from Westminster Seminary -- a view that said that there is no identity of content between the \"Christian system\" of theology, meaning Reformed confessions of faith, and the \"divine system\" of theology, known only to God.
  
  This agnosticism has now brought the OPC to the point of falling. Like its predecessor, the PCUSA, the OPC has failed to discipline teachers who teach contrary to Scriptures and the Confession of Faith, and it has endorsed un-Biblical teaching about Scripture and the Gospel.

[Cronos]

Well, no, the group to which our FRiends Alex, Rn, Dr E, Gamecock etc. belong rejects Christianity as well

As long as our Jewish friends know that this group is not Christian, we can safely ignore all their rantings that Jews are not the chosen people etc.

[RnMomof7]

More Light Presbyterians.

I guess some people can not read what others write with understanding.

Presbyterian is a FORM OF CHURCH GOVERNMENT ..it is not a doctrine..

"New light" churches are ALWAYS PCUSA . The Presbyterian church USA has a Presbyterian FORM OF CHURCH GOVERNMENT. The kindest thing I could say about that church is it is :"some of them might be kinnda arminian" They do not have a Calvinist doctrinal position.. Most of these churches are actually not even Christian .

Is the clear yet?

[RnMomof7]

Sexual deviants make great "clergy".

The best way to find out is to ask the catholic church they have been ordaining perverts for years

[RnMomof7]

What is necessary for membership in the catholic church ?

[RnMomof7]

Read it only the PCUSA is losing members..some people can not read numbers with undertstanding

[Quix]

Heading out to the retreat this afternoon.

May not be on much for 48 hours or so.