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Please note: EVERY WORD in the post below is **GENERAL** and applies to the **GENERAL** problem of Christians and Christian belief in **GENERAL** in all government schools. It is NOT NOT NOT directed personally to any Freeper!!!

1) that these problems are insurmountable

They are insurmountable. Why?

Answer: Because simply by attending collectivist, socialist-funded, godless, government owned and run schools, that are supervised by the voting mob ( comrade committee "school boards") children **will** become comfortable with collectivism, socialism, government ownership and management of their lives, and learn to submit to the voting mob. And..They **WILL** learn to think godlessly in these so-called schools, or at least to compartmentalize their faith. They must simply to function at all.

Since the above is the **fundamental** structure of the government schools the only way to fix it would be to have non-collectivist, non-socialist funded, non-government owned and run, GOD-CENTERED, and individually parent-teacher-principal supervised education. Huh?...Isn't this the very definition of **private** education?

2) her blanket condemnation that all public schools are horrible and without redeeming value

There is NO redeeming value in teaching children to be comfortable with collectivism, socialism, government ownership and management of a social service, voting mob comrade committee supervision of one's mind and soul, and GODLESSNESS! And...**ALL** government schools ( The good, the bad, and the ugly) are collectivist, socialist, godless, government owned and run, and supervised by the voting mob comrade committees ( "school boards")

3) her sweeping, blanket condemnation of conservatives and/or Christians who teach in public school.

Yeah! I do condemn those people who would teach children to think godlessly, and be comfortable with collectivism, socialism, government ownership and management of their mind and soul. **ALL** government schools do this. Yeah! Blanket condemnation fits. What should be the appropriate response in doing this to children? Huh?

She doesn’t just question Christians motives for teaching in a public school - she KNOWS their motives: she says we are all greedy, hypocritical, and liars.

I have made no comment about "motives". I have commented on the obvious conflicts between Christian belief and supporting and upholding the godlessness found in the government schools.

Regardless of motivation, if Christians attempt to sneak in a little Christian belief into their classes, which by law are godlessly secular, they **WILL** teach the children that Christians are sneaky and too timid to boldly teach what the teacher knows to be true.

Regardless of motivation children will eventually figure out that Christian belief can NOT coexist with the godless worldview that is taught in the government schools. The two worldviews, godless and God-centered, can not occupy the same time and space in the classroom or textbook. The children, on some level, will conclude that the Christian teacher is a hypocrite that is willing to sell their beliefs for a pay check, pension, and generous vacation time. It does not matter what the "motivation" of the Christian teacher is.

Further, wintertime chooses to be needlessly hostile toward any Christian or conservative who is a “government” school teacher.

Hostile? What should the appropriate response be to people who teach children to think godlessly? ( And...To keep a job in a government school this **is** what is done!) What should the proper response be to those who teach children to be comfortable with collectivism, socialism, voting mob comrade committees ( school boards),government ownership of their very minds and souls?

but I am defending the motives and the right of conservatives and Christians who try to improve and make a positive difference within public education.

As for motives, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If a Christian has kept his job in the godless government schools, and has not yet been fired, then he is supporting, upholding, and promoting the worldview of godlessness.

this has not been proof read. I am in a rush.

Dear wintertime: I just want you to know that the only reason I responded to this post by you was to let others know that being a public school teacher is not what you say it is. I want others to know that I and many, many other school teachers like me, are not the “godless”, “collectivist”, “socialists” you say we are. I refuse to be defined by you.

You are very sure of my sins - hypocracy, deception, promoting godlessness, etc. The truth is all of us will one day stand before God and we will then be judged by Him. So, I’ll leave it with Him as to the rightness of my motives in being a public school teacher.

Finally, I want other Freepers to know that the vast majority of public school teachers that I know, love kids and do their very best to teach them the subjects we’ve been hired to teach, and, to impart good, wholesome, even Godly, American values to our students.

I know I will never change wintertime’s opinion, but I hope that, although many of you are very disappointed with the performance of public schools in the last 20 years or so, you will not write off everyone who is trying to make a positive difference. Remember, most of our young people in the country attend public schools and will continue to do so in the years ahead. We need to work hard to improve public schools - I’ve got some thoughts on that below. It’s a bit long, but it is a big subject. I know you will give me a fair hearing.

Public schools, in the United States, are established, funded by, and supervised by each individual state and local “county” (or “parish”). The state government and the local county school district policy makers (i.e. local “school board” - or as wintertime calls them - “THE VOTING MOB, COMRADE COMMITTEE”) are elected and answerable to the voters of that state and county. Each individual state determines the teaching objective standards for graduation and the curriculum for it’s own schools. Each state establishes the qualifications for who can teach in that state.

The local school district hires/fires the school employees in that particular district. The point is – the public schools in your state, district and city are not Federal schools – they are local, state-run institutions . And, just like a lot of things in our country, the federal government has been intruding upon the state public school systems step by step, slowly but surely, over the last 70 years. However, that is beside the point (for now).

The real question is, do individual states have the right to establish public schools and fund them by the tax-dollars of each individual state’s citizenry? Another way to put the question is - is there anything in your state’s constitution that prohibits the establishment of public-funded, public schools by your individual state? If not, then are your state’s public schools just another example of “COLLECTIVIST SOCIALISM!!!” as defined by wintertime?

I think we can agree that expenditures of public funds by your state and local governments to fulfill its obligations as stated by your state’s constitution would not necessarily be “COLLECTIVIST SOCIALISM!!!” as defined by wintertime. I think most of us would agree that expenditures by the state and local government for fire departments, police departments, road maintenance, etc. are not necessarily “SOCIALISM!!!”. As much as I hate the DMV, I’m not sure that the state setting the criteria by which it’s citizens obtain a driver’s license is unconstitutional or “SOCIALISM” either. However, the question is, do state-funded public schools fall under the same category as police departments, fire departments, etc.?

If the citizenry of an individual state wants to establish, fund, and maintain schools to help educate it’s citizen’s children for the benefit of the citizenry as a whole, and, that such expenditures for such a thing is not prohibited by that individual state’s constitution – then is that “SOCIALISM!!!” as defined by wintertime? I’m not so sure that it is. Wintertime makes much of the fact that “government school attendence” is compulsory. That is not really true - it is true that kids are required to get an education - but it dosen’t have to be in the public schools. As far as I know, all the states allow the requirement to be fullfilled by homeschooling and/or private schools.

I think the problem most of us have had with the public school system has been the slow but sure deterioration of the quality of education our children have been receiving over the last 50 years.

But consider and be honest, are our public schools the same today as they were 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago? Weren’t most of you reading and posting articles here on FreeRepublic educated by public schools? I was, and yes there were times I had a bad teacher or two – but, for the most part, I had teachers who did a d—n good job and influenced me for the better as a student and a citizen.

When I was in public school, we opened with the Lord’s Prayer every day. We said the pledge of allegiance. We learned our nation’s proud history – along with some of it’s flaws – but, always with the idea that the United States was the greatest nation, the most giving nation, the most innovative nation and the bravest nation on the planet. I had public school teachers who taught me about how communism and Marxism are utopian ideas – how they lie and use violence to achieve their goals.

I was shown, by my public school civics teacher, how the major media (Newsweek, Time, in particular) slant the news and sometimes outright lie about the specifics of an individual or event.

For the most part, even religion (Christianity in particular) was affirmed and respected by the public schools I attended. I remember in my elementary school that we had a live Nativity scene as part of our annual Christmas program! No one thought anything about it.

So, don’t tell me that the public school system has always been the same and have always been an indoctrinator of our children for “SOCIALISM!!!”. It can be a strong positive educational influence on our children for the individual’s and our nation’s benefit. It can also be a powerful tool of a totalitarian government if the citizenry allow it to be. Our own state and federal governments can become the same thing if we do not stay vigilant.

The local public school district boards are elected by You, the people. The public school curriculum, the standards to be learned by Your students, the qualifications for teachers, along with textbooks, are selected and voted on by Your state government and local school boards. We, as citizens of that individual state have a tremendous amount of influence on what the local public schools do. But, we have to be involved! We have to stay informed! The only reason this Obama speech in the public schools was stopped or curtailed was because the public found out about it and made their voices be heard.

The local state public schools are definitely an easy target and deserve much of the criticism they get. But, if you honestly look at the reasons for many of the public school problems, I think you will see that most of these originate with “outside” influences – the ACLU, the NEA, Federal mandates, Federal courts, lawsuits, etc. When the state public schools accept federal money – then, they have to play according to the Federal government’s rules. But, perhaps the biggest source of the problems facing public schools today is the gradual deterioration of the family and of moral standards in general.

When I was in public school in the 1960’s and early 70’s, single parent homes (no matter what the ethnic group) were the oddity. Today, just the opposite is the norm. When I was in school, discipline was maintained and affirmed by the school and the parents. This is sadly not the case anymore.

These things can be changed – they must be changed. One of several ways to do this is not only to stay informed and involved politically on the local and state level, but also to have more and more conservatives to become teachers and administrators. There are teachers and administrators who are bucking the wave of political correctness and mandates by the ACLU and the NEA. We also need people who go on to higher education and become college professors to reform college educational methods and standards, and to train young teachers. It’s the colleges probably more than anything else that has promoted most of the “educational” idiocy. This can be changed.

My problem with wintertime and others who have similar views about the public school system is that they shoot in the back anyone who advocates improvement of the public school system. According to wintertime, you are part of the problem if you teach in the public schools, if you are an administrator in the public schools, send your kids to public school – even if you are conservative and make positive influences within the system.

Wintertime wants to shut down the public school system – she maintains that they are beyond hope and unconstitutional. I don’t think it is unconstitutional for individual states to establish a public school system and I don’t believe that public schools are beyond hope of conservative influence and sanity. Just like our own government – it has taken many, many years to get to the crisis we are in and it will take years to fix it. We can’t give up! We must not be what Thomas Paine called, “fair-weather patriots”- that only helps the bad side. It will take lots of involvement and hard work, but I believe most would agree that our nation and our schools are worth fixing.