Posted on 01/25/2011 6:54:48 AM PST by Cronos
...This brings us to the Presbyterian Church, which has historically held that the gift of tongues was limited to the generation of Christ’s apostles and has since then ceased ....
The Presbyterian position on tongues, as well as the “sensational gifts” (interpretation of tongues, healing, prophecy, miracles, etc…) differs sharply from the Pentecostal view at a fundamental philosophical level...Unlike Pentecostals, Presbyterians do not look at the events of Acts as being normative for what the church should expect to experience in every generation. To the contrary, Presbyterians interpret Acts as the history of the birth of the church, not a pattern for what all subsequent generations of the church ought to look like...It logically follows that, if these “sign gifts” (as they are sometimes called) were given for the express purpose of validating and giving credibility to God’s appointed writers of Holy Scripture, then when Scripture was completed and the canon was closed, these particular gifts would cease to be operative. From the Presbyterian viewpoint, if God was in fact granting men and women today the ability to perform miracles, speak in tongues, prophecy, etc…, this would indicate that God was raising up spokespeople to communicate fresh revelation from God. If one believes the canon is closed, however, the idea that fresh revelation is being communicated is untenable (and, therefore, the notion that the gifts appointed to accompany revelation are now operative is also untenable).
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
The Pentecostal argument is often, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever,” implying that whatever methods the Spirit used in the lives of first century believers would still be the ones used today. Presbyterians agree that Christ is immutable, but would make the distinction that, though God in his essence is unchanging, the methods and manners in which he operates towards humankind does change (for example, the Holy Spirit came and left people in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, he is described as a permanent resident in the believer).
record it and translate- then I’ll believe it is not gross deception
Having said that, I am greatly troubled by what SOME Pentecostal and Charismatic churches teach - that the only evidence one is saved is speaking in tongues. That is most definitely not biblical.
Because there are numerous example of people claiming to speak in tongues- record them and do some basic research to see if they are speaking a real language.
I absolutely hate deception in the name of religion. And some of the worst liars I ever met were the biggest bible thumpers.
My next door neighbor when I was growing up attending every mass every week and her son grew up to be a pastor. She was the meanest nastiest withc you ever met (out of church) and I think she killed my dog (seriously, I think she poisoned it)
In some extreme circles (the UnitedPentecostalChurch, for example) speaking in tongues is considered the crucial evidence of having the indwelling Holy Spirit, and therefore the salvation of believers who do not speak in tongues is called into question.
Believe me, `speaking in tongues’ is not only babbling, it’s “Hey, look at me, I’ve got the Spirit!”
See & heard it. Calling attention to oneself.
Like the Evan Baxter scene in “Bruce Almighty”, IMO.
But not just to validate the apostles. I imagine some of these miracles were also intended to pass God's love on to the person being healed.
The author argues that miracles ended with the New Testament age because God needed that validation to inspire the New Testament canon. However, God also did miracles at other times in history i.e. Moses, Elijah, the Judges. I suspect that God will break through and do miracles until the end of time.
Not one linguist said that glossolalia was a foreign language, Yet may I share just one letter out of many. A letter from Bruce R. Gordon, Head of the Department of Linguistics and Foreign Languages, University of Alaska at Fairbanks, says that he remains skeptical, not only because of the linguistic material, but he also verified two cases of speaking in actual foreign languages which he proved fraudulent beyond any question, Bruce goes on to say, "In the one case, despite denials, the person involved had lived in Africa and had had direct contact with several African tongues."14 In all the chances the tongue-speaker has had to convince the language expert he has failed to do so.and finally Speaking in Tongues Linguistic Study which is quite controversial.
popcorn bookmark
but look, the pentecostals say that the gifts can still happen.
A couple verses are relevant here: "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." 1 Cor 14:37. This verse, in context relates to the requirement that a church service follows this scriptural order:
"Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation." 1 Cor 14:26. Those who reject tongues have rejected a commandment of the Lord.
ok, perhaps you have counter-examples for Mr. K then?
Sigh.
Well put.
If I may ask, how many languages do you speak and how did you learn them? were you in the military and went to the linguistics school in Monterey?
I think it would be awesome to speak as many languages you listed.
My Pastor told me one time privately that he had the gift of tongues. He didn’t bring it up, I asked about it because I wanted to know more about it and see what he thought. He never mentions it because he thinks it would distract from his message. I’ve know him for at least three years and this was the first I heard of it. I believe him, too. He is a man of great integrity and humility and I cannot see him lying.
I would like to hear it though.
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