Pope: condoms can be justified in some cases [such as for male prostitutes]

Kansas City Star ^ | 11-20-10 | NICOLE WINFIELD and FRANCES D'EMILIO

[mlizzy]

Pope Benedict XVI says in a new book that condoms can be justified for male prostitutes seeking to stop the spread of HIV, a stunning comment for a church criticized for its opposition to condoms and for a pontiff who has blamed them for making the AIDS crisis worse.

The pope made the comments in a book-length interview with a German journalist, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," which is being released Tuesday. The Vatican newspaper ran excerpts on Saturday.

Church teaching has long opposed condoms because they are a form of artificial contraception, although it has never released an explicit policy about condoms and HIV. The Vatican has been harshly criticized for its opposition.

Benedict said that condoms are not a moral solution. But he said in some cases, such as for male prostitutes, they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

Benedict called it "a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way of living sexuality."

He used as an example male prostitutes, for whom contraception is not an issue, as opposed to married couples where one spouse is infected. The Vatican has come under pressure from even some church officials in Africa to condone condom use for monogamous married couples to protect the uninfected spouse from getting infected.

Continue reading here.

[mlizzy]

This is a much better article.

[mlizzy]

This is about condom use for [possibly] male prostitutes, who can’t procreate anyway.

[mlizzy]

Yep, you're right! On another thread, they're saying all sorts of untruths in this regard. That the Pope said unmarried people could use condoms, that couples could use condoms, etc. and so on ...

People are so quick to rip Catholicism ...

[Just mythoughts]

And they call it ‘social justice’....

[Tax-chick]

Oh, I know. I don’t participate in threads started by some posters, at all.

It’s not as if the Church hasn’t made it clear that all sodomitic activity is a sin. Adding condoms to that activity is morally irrelevant. Wear condoms for self-abuse, too; the Church doesn’t care.

[KoRn]

I must have been missing out on something here.

Was there some moral “justification” for condoms? Personally, I hate the things, but if people want to use them, to each his own. I don’t see how it’s any business of the Pope when it comes to what people do in their bedrooms. He must think alot of himself to make such proclamations.

[Popman]

He must think alot of himself to make such proclamations.

He is the vicar of Christ He proclaims and it comes straight from the Throne Of God

Personally to me he's just a guy with a funny hat

[Pyro7480]

Really, you should know what you’re talking about before moving your fingers across the keyboard.

[mlizzy]

He must think alot of himself to make such proclamations.

Yeah, just who does he think he is, the Pope? *smiles*

[Popman]

Are you telling me the Pope is not the Vicar of Christ or his hat isn’t funny looking ?

[Pyro7480]

No, I'm referring to this: He proclaims and it comes straight from the Throne Of God.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of papal infallibility.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Comment from a thread on this article from a Catholic forum:

Actually, that's their interpretation of what His Holiness said. Bits from the book that I found on the web indicate that what the interviewer did was ask the Pope if condoms would help in not transmitting HIV, and the Pope admitted they did stop the disease transmission, but then gave that quote about condoms not being a real solution. To the media, this is saying that condoms are OK.

You have to remember that it's in their interests to get people to think the Church contradicts itself. That way, it's easier for them to make the case that "Well, the Church has contradicted her teachings before, so women priests should be OK now".

[Salvation]

Thanks for this. I found a yahoo story, but I hate to excerpt stories. When I saw the male prostitues part of the quote, I realized that the other thread was not an honest assessment.

[steve86]

such as for male prostitutes, they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection."

I don't even accept that, not by a long shot.

If one intends fidelity to Catholic moral principles, be skeptical of everything that comes out of the Vatican post~1960. Especially papal opinions that imply wrongs are justified sometimes "just because". Do nothing to facilitate on-going evil.

[goodwithagun]

Ok, lots of issues with this.
1. Condoms are more likely to rip/tear during sodomous acts.
2. Condoms are not effective in preventing AIDS: I will try to find a source, but I once read the while they are 99% effective at preventing pregnancy if used properly but only around 85% effective in preventing the spread of HIV. I thought the reason was because the virus is much smaller than a sperm cell, and therefore easier to get through the pores of the condom. Feel free to contradict or help find supporting sources!
3. The Pope needs to speak about the sin of sodomy, as well as the dangers of Christians accepting the gay lifestyle. It would be great if he could bring attention to all the negative side effects, mentally and physically.

[mlizzy]

You're welcome. I showed my husband the other thread, and he said, "WHAT!?" And then he said, "See if you can find out what the Pope really said" ...

[Popman]

So when the Pope speaks “ ex cathedra” which is part of Vatican I and papal infallabily it is inspired by what:

God though the Holy Spirit
Satan
spaghetti monster in the sky

BTW, I think highy of the Pope - I simply don't believe who the RC church claims who he is and I might add I am very well versed in RC doctrine so you may want to defend your faith to the death but I don't plan on wasting my time watching you die

[Verginius Rufus]

OK, the Church condemns sex outside of marriage (which would include sex with prostitutes), and condemns homosexual actions. There's also the fifth commandment--"Thou shalt not kill."

If a person is determined to go ahead and be a male prostitute, but can either spread a deadly disease or not spread a deadly disease, I don't see what's wrong with saying "don't also kill the person you are having wrongful sexual relations with."

David committed adultery with Bathsheba, which led to some embarrassing consequences. He could have avoided those consequences by killing her right after they had sex. I don't think anyone would argue that the more moral thing for David to have done, after seducing Bathsheba, was to have killed her.

[Salvation]

Here's the yahoo thread and the exceprt:

Pope: condoms can be justified in some cases

By NICOLE WINFIELD and FRANCES D'EMILIO, Associated Press Nicole Winfield And Frances D'emilio, Associated Press – 1 hr 42 mins ago

VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI says in a new book that condoms can be justified for male prostitutes seeking to stop the spread of HIV, a stunning comment for a church criticized for its opposition to condoms and for a pontiff who has blamed them for making the AIDS crisis worse.

The pope made the comments in a book-length interview with a German journalist, "Light of the World: The Pope, the Church and the Signs of the Times," which is being released Tuesday. The Vatican newspaper ran excerpts on Saturday.

Church teaching has long opposed condoms because they are a form of artificial contraception, although it has never released an explicit policy about condoms and HIV. The Vatican has been harshly criticized for its opposition.