Which is more over the top - the fact that the article is by a TBM?
Or that a TBM would be so quick to dismiss such an article without any basis.
Would you buy mormonism from this fellow?
Posted on 10/25/2010 10:39:24 AM PDT by Colofornian
1. Key events in the revealing of the doctrine of vicarious work for the dead
A. Keys restored by Elijah. On April 3, 1836, the prophet Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple, and restored “the keys of this dispensation” “to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to their fathers.” [D&C 110:13-16] His last-days coming was prophesied by Malachi, and that prophecy was repeated by Moroni [Mal. 4:5-6; JS–H 1:36-39; D&C 2:1. See D&C 138:46-48] “He conferred the sealing power of the priesthood on Joseph Smith. This power makes possible eternal marriage, sealings to parents, and temple ordinance work for the dead.” {Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, 1999, p. 228]
B.The doctrine of Baptism for the Dead announced. Joseph Smith announced the privilege of saints being baptized for their dead on August 15, 1840, at the funeral of Seymour Brunson. D&C 124:29-39, given January 19, 1841, gave further instructions. [See Gospel Doctrine Lesson 30]
C. The necessity of work for the dead revealed. D&C 128, given September 6, 1842, reveals that “their salvation is necessary for our salvation,” and “they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect.” [D&C 128:15; See Heb. 11:40.]
D. The instruction to seal our families together given. “During the April 1894 general conference, President Woodruff announced that he had received a revelation about genealogical work. He declared that God wanted the Latter-day Saints ‘to trace their genealogies as far as they can, and to be sealed to their fathers and mothers. Have the children sealed to their parents and run this chain through as far as you can get it. . . . This is the will of the Lord to his people,’ he said, “and I think when you come to reflect upon it you will find it to be true.’” [Our Heritage, p. 101]
E. The vision of the redemption of the dead was given. On October 3, 1918, President Joseph F. Smith received the glorious vision which is now D&C 138. He was shown how the Lord visited the righteous spirits [D&C 138:12-15] [in Paradise in] the Spirit World and appointed missionaries to preach the gospel [D&C 138:29-37] to those who had not yet received the gospel [D&C 138:20-22].
F. Faithful saints of this dispensation will preach the gospel in the spirit world. In his Vision of the Redemption of the Dead, President Joseph F. Smith also saw that “faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption” [D&C 138:57].
G. For clarification concerning the separate areas of Paradise, the Spirit Prison and Hell, see Duane S. Crowther, Life Everlasting, 1997 Revised Edition, pp. 275-298.
2. Numerous spiritual manifestations and visitations from beyond the veil show the need, the urgency, and our eternal responsibility to perform vicarious work for the dead
A. The experience of Frederick William Hurst: “Frederick William Hurst was working as a gold miner in Australia when he first heard Latter-day Saint missionaries preach the restored gospel. He and his brother Charles were baptized in January 1854. He tried to help his other family members become converted, but they rejected him and the truths he taught. Fred settled in Salt Lake City four years after joining the Church, and he served faithfully as a missionary in several different countries. He also worked as a painter in the Salt Lake Temple. In one of his final journal entries, he wrote: ‘Along about the 1st of March, 1893, I found myself alone in the dining room, all had gone to bed. I was sitting at the table when to my great surprise my elder brother Alfred walked in and sat down opposite me at the table and smiled. I said to him (he looked so natural): “When did you arrive in Utah?” He said, “I have just come from the Spirit World, this is not my body that you see, it is lying in the tomb. I want to tell you that when you were on your mission you told me many things about the Gospel, and the hereafter, and about the Spirit World being as real and tangible as the earth. I could not believe you, but when I died and went there and saw for myself I realized that you had told the truth. I attended the Mormon meetings.” He raised his hand and said with much warmth: “I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart. I believe in faith, repentance and baptism for the remission of sins, but that is as far as I can go. I look to you to do the work for me in the temple. . . . You are watched closely. . . . We are all looking to you as our head in this great work. I want to tell you that there are a great many spirits who weep and mourn because they have relatives in the Church here who are careless and are doing nothing for them.” (Diary of Frederick William Hurst, comp. Samuel H. and Ida Hurst [1961], 204).” [Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, 1999, pp. 226-227]
B. The experience of Bishop Henry Ballard: “In May, 1884, Bishop Henry Ballard of the Logan Second Ward was signing temple recommends at his home. Henry’s nine-year-old daughter, who was talking with friends on the sidewalk near her home, saw two elderly men approaching. They called to her, handed her a newspaper, and told her to take it to her father. The girl did as she was asked. Bishop Ballard saw that the paper, the Newbury Weekly News, published in England, contained the names of more than 60 of his and his father’s acquaintances, along with genealogical information. This newspaper, dated 15 May 1884, had been given to him only three days after it was printed. In a time long before air transportation, when mail took several weeks to get from England to western America, this was a miracle. The next day, Bishop Ballard took the newspaper to the temple and told the story of its arrival to Marriner W. Merrill, the temple president. President Merrill declared, ‘Brother Ballard, someone on the other side is anxious for their work to be done and they knew that you would do it if this paper got into your hands.’ This newspaper is preserved in the Church Historical Library in Salt Lake City, Utah.” [Our Heritage, p. 99]
C. Other accounts, from Life Everlasting:
1. James W. LeSueur’s Spirit Prison visit: Families preach to their kindred dead. (288-90)
2. President Rudger Clawson: Unsealed married couples must live separately (312)
3. Eliza Neville’s visit from Grandmother Stiff: Must be a perfect link back to Adam (310-11)
4. Horatio Pickett, F.T. Pomeroy, Joseph H. Smith, J. Hatten Carpenter: Spirits are [sometimes] present when vicarious ordinances are performed (317-321)
5. Bertha Call’s experience: Spirits can take actions to correct genealogical errors and omissions (323-24)
6. John M. Lang’s angelic manifestation: Recording angels keep a perfect record (309-10)
7. Lerona A. Wilson’s warning from her deceased father: Do the family’s genealogy and temple work or be moved out of the way for someone else to do it (314-15)
8. President Wilford Woodruff: The spirits of the dead will seek after you to see that their redemptive ordinances are done (315-16)
placemark.
occult occurrences at temples & Lds homes
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Rofl This is just too much. Over-the-top obsessive anti-Mormonism.
The 1880s and 1890s: The Hauntings of the Salt Lake Tabernacle and Salt Lake Homes & Neighborhoods, 1884-1893
The October Other-World Series:
The 1870s: The Mormon Plan of Eternal Progression
The 1850s: Spiritualism and Mormonism: Some Thoughts on Similarities and Differences
The 1840s: The Nauvoo Pentagrams
The 1830s: The Occult and the Restoration Story: Joseph Smith and RLDS/LDS Origins
The Spirit World, Our Next Home
Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings
The "familiar spirit" in 2 Nephi 26:16
The early 1800s:
JOSEPH SMITH, JR: Founder and first "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (1805-1844)
JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT
GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism
Hey, come on! He’s on a roll, with 10 anti-Mormon threads in the last 2 days. Give him some space and he can post an even dozen.
Which is more over the top - the fact that the article is by a TBM?
Or that a TBM would be so quick to dismiss such an article without any basis.
Would you buy mormonism from this fellow?
Articles by Duane S. Crowther - life time mormon.
Totally missing the point again I see.
I skimmed the article and saw nothing wrong with it. I addressed Colo’s comment. Nothing more.
Correction: The Hauntings of the Salt Lake Temple and Salt Lake Homes & Neighborhoods, 1884-1893
With all the paranormal activity going on in Salt Lake City, hard to keep it straight. The tabernacle activity was from the 1850s...when Brigham Young was in the pulpit:
1850s: The Evil Spirit Haunting of the Salt Lake City Tabernacle -- Even During Broad Daylight!
"Well, these evil spirits are ready to prompt you. Do they prompt us? Yes, and I could put my hands on a dozen of them while I have been on this stand; they are here on the stand; Could we do without the devils? No, we could not get along without them. They are here, and they suggest this, that, and the other." Brigham Young, JoD, 3:369, June 22, 1856
There ya go. Brigham Young saying they couldn't "do without the devils" in his presence!
It also seems these spirits just "love" to visit the Mormon temples (Kirtland, OH, Manti, UT, and Salt Lake, UT, in the Spring). The elderly ghostly newspaper delivery boys Crowther writes about also took place in the Spring (May, 1884). And the Hurst incidents supposedly took place March 1, 1893.
1893 was also a special time for these manifestations:
1890s:
The Haunting of the Salt Lake City Temple opening and of Lds General Authorities
Backdrop to 1893 hauntings: Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff claimed: "I have had many interviews with Brother Joseph until the last 15 or 20 years of my life; I have not see him for that length of time." Journal of Discourses, 21:317-318, October 10, 1880, cf. JoD, 19:229
Similar claim by Lds "apostle" Heber C. Kimball (the one who manifested signs of demon possession as a Mormon missionary in 1837): "Joseph Smith continued visiting myself and others up to a certain time, and then it stopped." -- Lds "apostle" Heber C. Kimball, Deseret Weekly News, 53:112, Temples of the Most High, 1896, p. 345
Spring, 1893:
Yes, it stopped in the 1870s...only to reoccur in the 1890s: Mormons claim that when they opened their temple in the Spring of 1893, "Some Latter-day Saints saw...past Presidents of the Church and other deceased Church leaders." (Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1996, p. 1020)
Sometimes, Lds leaders recognize these for who they are...other times, no.
Recall, for example, Heber C. Kimball's and Orson Whitney's 1837 account of demons:
We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard’s watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I (Kimball) shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself, or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for sometime. (Whitney p. 130-131)
So, these 1837 demons "appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh.... No doubt, the demons appearing to these Lds "prophets" and general authorities had the same man-likfe manifestation.
You might say, "Well, that was the 19th century. What about more contemporary times?" Well, these demons are still loving to manifest themselves to Mormon missionaries: Late 1970s or 1980-1981: The Evil Spirit Haunting of the Lds Brazilian Mission
"A few years ago while touring the missions of South America, I heard President William Grant Gangerter of the Brazilian Mission make some interesting comments. He reported that there had been a wave of incidents in which evil spirits were afflicting the missionaries and the Saints. At every conference the missionaries were relating experiences they were having with evil spirits. The intensity of their influence was frightening." Come Unto Christ, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, for 1984, 1988 published by Lds church, 1983, 1986 p. 109
LOL, yep you certainly skimmed the article pd.
occult occurrences at temples . .
Numerous spiritual manifestations and visitations from beyond the veil show the need, the urgency, and our eternal responsibility to perform vicarious work for the dead
in the home
I was sitting at the table when to my great surprise my elder brother Alfred walked in and sat down opposite me at the table and smiled. I said to him (he looked so natural): “When did you arrive in Utah?” He said, “I have just come from the Spirit World, this is not my body that you see, it is lying in the tomb.
Occultic - most definitely. Mormonism would feel more at home with spiritists than with Christians on this point - one that went completely over your head, as the article addressed the issue.
There's plenty wrong with it.
The Mormon church is "proud" of these occult activities. The Ballard 1884 incident is cited in Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1996, p. 99. And another Ballard family member was quoted by Bryant S. Hinckley in Sermons and Missionary Services of Melvin Joseph Ballard, Derseret Books Co, p. 249, as saying: "Elder Melvin J. Ballard testified that 'the spirit and influence of your dead will guide those who are interested in finding those records." (As cited on p. 162 of Come Follow Me, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal study guide, published by the Lds church 1983)
The Mormon church gives absolutely zilcho warning that all those "spirits" out there are not necessarily "family friendly" -- and often are not family, but simply demons in disquise.
The Mormon church is exploiting paranormal activity, and they are doing it through the natural love people have for deceased family members.
"All people are naturally close to their families, and both Mormonism and the spirit world use this fact to their advantage" (John Ankerberg and John Weldon, What do Mormons Really Believe?: What the Ads Don't Tell You, p. 150)
More plagiarism from the Christian Bible
The scriptures are about John the Baptist..
“Look, I am sending you the prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day of the LORD arrives. His preaching will turn the hearts of fathers to their children, and the hearts of children to their fathers. Otherwise I will come and strike the land with a curse.” Malachi 4:5, 6
But the angel said, “Don’t be afraid, Zechariah! God has heard your prayer. Your wife, Elizabeth, will give you a son, and you are to name him John. He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, for he will be great in the eyes of the Lord. He must never touch wine or other alcoholic drinks. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even before his birth. And he will turn many Israelites to the Lord their God. He will be a man with the spirit and power of Elijah. He will prepare the people for the coming of the Lord. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and he will cause those who are rebellious to accept the wisdom of the godly.” John 1:13-17
Again, Crowther in his books and Joseph Heinerman in his three books (Spirit World Manifestations, Eternal Testimonies, and Temple Manifestations), keep recounting these ghostly or demonic temple manifestations as "faith-promoting" spiritual activity.
They don't provide guidance for discerning between hostile, malicious, malevolent spirits/demons and "ghosts." Even then, Deut. 18:9-12 says we should not be having contact with the dead, let alone being using Lds books, Lds Sunday School lessons, and BYU freshmen courses on genealogy to be encouraging people to seek out such experiences!
John Ankerberg and John Weldon quote Heinerman as claiming that these manifestations "detail scores of stories of dead family members and other spirits instructing Mormon leaders, missionaries, and laymen in genealogical and other Mormon work. In fact, these and other books reveal that for many Mormons, 'true' religion involves not only ministering to the spirits of the dead by proxy baptism, but also receiving guidance and instruction from spirits of the dead for spiritual growth. Heinerman explains, 'The inhabitants of the spirit world have received special permission to visit their mortal descendants and assist them and impress upon their minds the primary importance of assimilating genealogical information and performing vicarious ordinance work in the temples. Spirit world manifestations and angelic appearances have played and continue to play a major role in the upbuilding of God's Kingdom in these latter days...It should be gratifying to Latter-day Saints that those in the spirit world have expressed an intense interest in and are increasingly concerned with the activities of God's people on earth.'" (The Facts on the Mormon Church by John Ankerberg, John Weldon, & Dillon Burroughs 1991/2009 Harvest House Publishers, p. 72)
Lets take this one step further - the biblical prohibition against contacting the ‘dead’ is also basis against using such ‘contacts’ for the establishment of doctrine as well.
“Well, these evil spirits are ready to prompt you. Do they prompt us? Yes, and I could put my hands on a dozen of them while I have been on this stand; they are here on the stand; Could we do without the devils? No, we could not get along without them. They are here, and they suggest this, that, and the other.” Brigham Young, JoD, 3:369, June 22, 1856
___________________________________________
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The happy voices of brides and grooms will never be heard in you again. For your merchants were the greatest in the world, and you deceived the nations with your sorceries. Revelation 18:23
In the Christian Bible we are told not to have anything to do with devils, demons, witches, sorcerers, mediums..
Suffer not a witch or sorcerer to live..Exodus 22:18
For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or black magic, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft,
So Saul died because of his unfaithfulness to the LORD: He did not obey the word of the LORD. He asked a medium to request information [from a dead person]. 1 Chronicles 10:13
When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. A number of them who had been practicing sorcery brought their incantation books and burned them at a public bonfire. Acts 19:17-19
Now you know full well the doings of our lower sinful natures. Fornication, impurity, indecency, idol-worship, sorcery; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, heresies, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galations 5:19-21
The Smith family were heavily into the occult...
The evidence seems to show that Joseph Smith did make sacrifices to the demons. In an affidavit published in 1834, William Stafford, one of the neighbors of the Smith family, reported the following:
“Joseph Smith, Sen., came to me one night, and told me that Joseph Smith Jr. had been looking in his glass, and had seen, not many rods from his house, two or three kegs of gold and silver… Joseph, Sen. first made a circle, twelve or fourteen feet in diameter. This circle, said he, contains the treasure. He then stuck in the ground a row of witch hazel sticks, around the said circle, for the purpose of keeping off the evil spirits. Within this circle he made another, of about eight or ten feet in diameter. He walked around three times on the periphery of this last circle, muttering to himself something which I could not understand. He next stuck a steel rod in the centre of the circles, and then enjoined profound silence upon us, lest we should arouse the evil spirit who had the charge of these treasures.
After we had dug a trench about five feet in depth around the rod, the old man… went to the house to inquire of young Joseph the cause of our disappointment. He soon returned and said, that Joseph had remained all this time in the house, looking in his stone and watching the motions of the evil spirit – that he saw the spirit come up to the ring and as soon as it beheld the cone which we had formed around the rod, it caused the money to sink… another time, they devised a scheme, by which they might satiate their hunger, with the mutton of one of my sheep. They had seen in my flock a sheep, a large, fat, black weather. Old Joseph and one of the boys came to me one day, and said that Joseph Jr. had discovered some very remarkable and valuable treasures, which could be procured only in one way. That way, was as follows: – That a black sheep should be taken to the ground where the treasures were concealed – that after cutting its throat, it should be led around in a circle while bleeding. This being done, the wrath of the evil spirit would be appeased: the treasures could then be obtained, and my share of them was to be four fold.
To gratify my curiosity, I let them have a large fat sheep. They afterwards informed me, that the sheep was killed pursuant to commandment; but as there was some mistake in the process, it did not have the desired effect. This, I believe, is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business.” (Mormonism Unvailed, 1834, pages 238-239; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 2, pp.59-61)
the biblical prohibition against contacting the ‘dead’
_____________________________________________
So Saul died because of his unfaithfulness to the LORD: He did not obey the word of the LORD. He asked a medium to request information [from a dead person]. 1 Chronicles 10:13
This tells everyone that the mormon 'prophets' were anything BUT true prophets.
Much ado about nothing. Your misguided opinions and nothing more.
If you all believe that supernatural manifestations = occult then I have no problem. Never seen it but I know it could happen.
If you all mean occult as in satanic practices then you are off your rockers.
One does not equate to the other.
Well you can excuse or denny what you will but that which Joseph Smith acclaimed is certainly without question satanic occult practices.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.