SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 1Posted on 10/11/2010 2:57:22 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
The Pentecostal movement is severely divided on the so-called "Toronto Blessing." See the following YouTube videos:
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 1
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 2- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 2
Pastor David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations
See also these files:
THE STRIKING SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE "TORONTO BLESSING" AND THE SERPENT POWER OF KUNDALINI
Comparison Between the Kundalini Practice and the so-called Toronto Blessing
Not long after the wholesale Kundalini infestation of the Pentecostal movement, some leaders of the Pentecostal movement began a wholesale assault on the "Queen of Heaven":
When the River Burst Against It
By Mark Connell
In a northern city in Argentina, four Catholic men fell to the ground in a most unusual way. Here is an account of the event by Protestant author C. Peter Wagner:
"In the city of Santiago del Estero, a local priest decided to oppose the [Evangelistic] crusade by invading the area with a religious procession. When they arrived, the four strong men carrying the statue of the priest's favorite virgin all fell to the ground under the power of the Spirit and the statue shattered into a thousand pieces. Two of the men spent the night in the hospital and the other two in [Evangelist Carlos] Annacondia's deliverance tent! This is warfare prayer in action."
Wagner, church growth expert and leading teacher of "spiritual warfare prayer," is gleefully describing here the fruit of specific prayer initiated by Protestants in what he unashamedly calls a "laboratory for relating strategic-level spiritual warfare prayer to evangelism." Strategic-level warfare prayer, according to Wagner, is prayer that seeks to defeat the "territorial spirits" ruling an area. (Another name for these demons would be 'strongmen'; hence the description of the four statue bearers as "strong men" has additional significance here. These men were part of a demonic procession. This point will become clearer as the facts are presented.) The laboratory Wagner prefers to test out this prayer technique in is the country of Argentina, and he is obviously delighted with the outcome. 'Revival' has hit Argentina says Wagner, and at last the Gospel is being preached to the people there. The gospel is in, idolatrous processions are out.
Wagner relates that before the Falkland war of 1982, "Argentines had been widely known as being indifferent or resistant to the gospel." Another writer relates how, because of the war," It was the sorrow and suffering of our nation that prepared hearts for the gospel." After the war the people sensed that "The church had failed them, Peronism had failed them. They were ready to try something different." And so they did.
Along with increased levels of Spiritism, Mormonism and other cults, Wagner says great evangelical growth occurred in Argentina. He suggests this evangelical growth was the result of both warfare prayer and the ministry of Carlos Annocondia, a wealthy businessman turned evangelist. It was outside one of Annocondia's revival services that the Spirit overcame the men in the procession and the statue was smashed.
While this single episode may be amusing to a Protestant with an aversion to Marian piety, it should cause Catholics to take notice. Evidently the lesson Wagner would have us learn here is that, at least in Argentina, the Holy Spirit does not approve of Marian processions. In fact, He disapproves so strongly that He sent two of the men in this procession to the hospital. Although Argentina was over 90% Catholic in 1974, C. Peter Wagner doesn't flinch when he writes that there was "little effective evangelization" in the Argentinean city of Adrogue before 1974.
There are currently people worldwide using Wagner's techniques to pray directly against some of the most ancient pietistic practices of both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. As hard as this may be to believe in this age of ecumenism, there is a war being waged in South America and the tools of this battle are spreading worldwide.
Prayer campaigns with names such as "Operation Queen's Domain" have been launched worldwide. C. Peter Wagner has written that:
"we consider the Queen of Heaven as a chief principality commissioned by Satan to keep unbelievers in spiritual darkness, and we have identified ancient Ephesus as one of her principal power centres where she formerly manifested in the person of Diana. We called it the "palace" because the temple of Diana (Artemis) in Ephesus syncretised, among other things, ancient Cybele worship, the Moon Goddess (Sin), and allegiance to Mammon(the temple was the first historical prototype of what we know today as the World Bank). Not surprisingly, Ephesus was also the site chosen by the church of that day for the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD which officially declared that Mary is the "mother of God." [Emphasis added]Wagner has recently been installed as the "Presiding Apostle" and will help guide a worldwide convocation of restored Apostles who seek to re-establish God's Government on this earth. God's Government (Five fold ministry including true Apostles and Prophets) is not properly in place at this time, claims Wagner, hindering true revival.
Elsewhere, Protestant pastors in San Nicholas, Argentina, under the leadership of Prophetic Intercessor Cindy Jacobs, have declared war on the Queen of Heaven. Mrs. Jacobs did this upon receiving direct instructions from God.
Around the world, spiritual 'maps' are being drawn up detailing the 'spiritual strongholds' in cities. 'Prayer-walkers' are going through many cities, perhaps circling your Churches, Cathedrals and Marian sites, 'pulling down' the demonic influences of a what they see as a Gospel-less and corrupt Catholicism.
Like a river, this movement has flowed from South America and threatens to weaken any house whose foundation is not sure. In the Northern Hemisphere, the 'fruit' of this offensive bears names like the Toronto Blessing, the Brownsville Revival or, simply, The River.
Men and women who deny the Real Presence in the Eucharist and have no intention of submitting to St. Peter's successor lead these ongoing Christian services which claim supernatural visitations from God complete with manifestations such as: barking like dogs, roaring like lions, howling, uncontrollable laughter, orgasms, women laying on the floor with legs spread giving birth to 'ministries', shaking, being glued to the floor, deep bowing, literally vomitting up demons, gold dust falling from the ceiling, angel feathers falling from the sky, gold teeth and fillings, prophetic utterances, visitations by angelic beings, mist, fog, spiritual drunkenenss. The list could go on infinitely, because there simply is no limit on what will be accepted at these meetings. Everything is permissible in the River except the use of reason.
Almost beyond belief, Catholic Charismatic leaders are willing to share the stage with these same River leaders and are willing to promote an event with these people as the 'most significant assembly of Christians' in this Jubilee year. Leaders such as Father Michael Scanlan, Ralph Martin, Bishop Sam Jacobs, Father Tom Forrest and many others will encourage Catholics to sit under the ministry of men and women who regularly pray against the truths which Saints have died to protect. Charity demands that one assume these Charismatic leaders do not understand what C. Peter Wagner, Cindy Jacobs and the other River leaders believe and teach. Perhaps, then, a look might be beneficial for all?
Part Two of "A River Burst Against It" coming soon.
©Copyright Mark Connell 2000
Here's more on C. Peter Wagner's Operation Queen's Domain:
Operation Queen's Domain
WORLDWIDE PRAYER MOVEMENT FOCUSES INTERCESSION ON 40/70 WINDOWEditorial note: the worldwide prayer movement will focus it's prayer strategy for the next five years on the 40/70 Window, the area between 40 and 70 degrees north of the Equator, from the western tip of Ireland to the eastern tip of Siberia. In this contribution Peter Wagner explains the background of this new prayer initiative named "Operation Queens Domain".
WORLDWIDE PRAYER MOVEMENT FOCUSES INTERCESSION ON 40/70 WINDOW
Our October 1 "Celebration Ephesus" was a magnificent event from every conceivable perspective. The Holy Spirit visited us with an anointing of compassion and generosity and we were able to leave over $75,000 US for the Turkish Protestant Earthquake Relief Committee. Undoubtedly you have seen many detailed reports of the happening.
One of the most frequent questions I was asked during the event was, "What are you going to do after this?" I honestly had no answer. Celebration Ephesus was a one-of-a-kind occasion. Once the euphoria wore off however, God's revelation for the next step began to come. I am now calling prayer leaders and intercessors worldwide to move from Operation Queen's Palace to Operation Queen's Domain over the next 5 years, 2000-2004.
What we might call the "Queen's Domain" is an imaginary geographical area between 40 and 70 degrees north of the Equator, the "40/70 Window." It runs from the western tip of Ireland to the eastern tip of Siberia. It covers twelve time zones from Greenwich Mean Time to the International Date Line. On one side, the waves of the Atlantic Ocean roll up through the Bay of Biscay and on the other side the waves of the Pacific Ocean roll up through the Bering Sea.
In the 40/70 Window we find Europe, Eurasia, the Northern Mediterranean, Russia, Armenia, the Balkans, Turkey and the Turkic Belt, the "stans" of the former USSR, the ancient Silk Road running from Greece to China, Mongolia, the Xinjiang Province of China, North Korea, the Hokkaido Island of Japan just to name a few of the incredibly important geographical regions.
A whole cluster of considerations have helped us to understand, at least at this preliminary stage, why God might choose to focus our attention on the 40/70 Window. Our knowledge of the 10/40 Window increased exponentially during the 1990s, and I expect the same thing will happen with the 40/70 Window over the next few years.
One advantage that we have now, over what we had 10 years ago, is that the World Prayer Centre is well equipped with the technical infrastructure to serve as an unprecedented communications hub for researchers, intercessors, and prayer leaders. The Observatory unit at the WPC, is compiling an enormous spiritual mapping data base, and throughout Operation Queen's Domain they will be able to provide the strategic ongoing and up-to-date information that we need for informed intercession much more rapidly than in the past. Our prayers will therefore be directed toward much sharper targets than ever before.
Operation Queen's Palace concluded in Turkey, the recognised spawning grounds for worldwide goddess worship. We called it "Queen's" Palace because we consider the Queen of Heaven as a chief principality commissioned by Satan to keep unbelievers in spiritual darkness, and we have identified ancient Ephesus as one of her principal power centres where she formerly manifested in the person of Diana. We called it the "palace" because the temple of Diana (Artemis) in Ephesus syncretised, among other things, ancient Cybele worship, the Moon Goddess (Sin), and allegiance to Mammon(the temple was the first historical prototype of what we know today as the World Bank). Not surprisingly, Ephesus was also the site chosen by the church of that day for the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD which officially declared that Mary is the "mother of God." [Empasis added] Turkey and Ephesus area included in both the 10/40 Window and the 40/70 Window, so we are looking at Turkey as our principal hinge nation. An incredible love for Turkey among believers worldwide was ignited by Celebration Ephesus.
The Queen of Heaven has deeply penetrated and corrupted much of the traditional Christianity of the 40/70 Window. Hard-core idolatry has become a major problem in many churches throughout much of the 40/70 Window and it constitutes an enormous barrier to lost people being saved. Latin America was in a similar situation up through the 1950s, but the spiritual climate there has changed radically.
The 40/70 Window is the greatest area of dormant Christianity in today's world. Revival reports have recently been emerging from many different areas, but notably few of them are coming out of the 40/70 Window. The 40/70 Window contains more unsaved Christians than any other part of the world.
The 40/70 window is the heart of non-Arab Turkic Islam, which draws considerable spiritual power from the Moon Goddess, one of the manifestations of the Queen of Heaven. In a recent AD2000 report, Luis Bush has drawn our attention to the "Turkic Belt," also called the "35/45 Window," with nations clustered along the ancient Silk Road from Greece to China. Signs of spiritual breakthrough in the Turkic Belt, which we include in the 40/70 Window, point toward a kairos moment, demanding fervent and concentrated prayer. For example, in 1990 there were only around 1600 believers in the Turkic Belt, but by 1999 the number was over 43,000!
Several International leaders have been divinely drawn to the 40/70 Window. A few months ago I asked Roger Mitchell of U.K. to undertake coordination of all of Europe instead of simply coordinating Northern Europe as before. Roger has been one of the most dedicated and proactive of all the regional coordinators. Harold Caballeros, the equally effective coordinator in Spanish-Speaking Latin America, has resigned that position in order to focus his energies on Spain, a key nation of the 40/70 Window. Cindy Jacobs has also prioritized Spain on her ministry agenda for the next ten years. Gerda Leithgob has been led to concentrate on Poland. Ana Mendez and Marty Cassady have an unusual burden for Italy and Greece. Alice Smith has joined them in the focus on Italy. Cindy Jacobs has recently received words about ministry in Russia, including an assignment for Russian Jews. Martha Lucia of Christian International has received prophetic instructions to target the 40/70 Window.
Switzerland, considered by many the centre of world finance, is in the 40/70 Window, and many are discerning a close relationship between the Queen of Heaven and the spirit of Mammon.
The 40/70 Window hosts Brussels, Belgium, the headquarters of the United Nations where the promotion of the worship of Gaia or Mother Earth has become widely known. Some feel that she, another disguise of the Queen of Heaven, should become the recognised deity of the human race.
The 40/70 Window is a site of many of God's fresh starts: the Garden of Eden, Mt. Ararat, Ur of the Chaldees, Antioch, Wittenberg, Aldersgate, and others. We believe that another fresh start is on the horizon for the 40/70 Window.
Without knowing how important it would soon become in Operation Queen's Domain, over 200 highly-trained intercessors moved into the 40/70 Window at the time of what some occult practitioners called the "culminating spectacle of the heavens," namely the solar eclipse of August 11, 1999. Seventeen prayer journey teams moved out from the World Prayer Centre, while an equal number joined them from U.K. They were strategically located in England, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Bosnia, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Greece, and Turkey, as well as in Iraq and Israel of the 10/40 Window. This high-level prayer initiative has set in place a very sound spiritual infrastructure for Operation Queen's Domain.
It must be kept in mind that as we concentrate our prayer initiatives on the 40/70 Window, the nations and regions of the world which trace their cultural roots to peoples of the 40/70 Window will be directly affected. This means that nations like U.S.A, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Latin America, the Philippines, and other places will benefit immensely from Operation Queen's Domain.
Our prayers for the lost people in the 10/40 Window over the past decade have been incredibly productive. At the beginning of the decade the four most significant anti-Christian blocks were Communism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. Communism is no longer that significant, Buddhism is on the run, Hinduism is badly battered, and Islam has deep cracks that were not there previously. A large percentage of the unreached people groups now have church planting teams on site. We must continue to pray for and to evangelise the 10/40 Window, but it is now time to shift the primary target for strategic-level warfare to the 40/70 Window.
Much of the 40/70 Window is exactly where Latin America was fifty years ago. Now we are seeing revival fires burning in much of Latin America, and the Queen of Heaven is loosening her grip. We believe that in a much shorter time than that her grip on the 40/70 window will also be broken, and revival fires will be burning brightly from Ireland to Siberia.[Emphasis added.]
C. Peter Wagner International Director World Prayer Centre
Source: Global Harvest Ministries
And here's more on their coordinated attack on "the stronghold of the Queen of Heaven":
For more on this subject, see Operation Queen's Palace and OVERCOMING THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN.Breakthrough in Argentina
From, "The Voice of God" by Cindy JacobsItalics in original. This document provided for educational purposes.
A couple of months ago while I was writing this book, I was asked by Harvest Evangelism to go to the city of San Nicholas, Argentina. Harvest Evangelism is headed by Ed Silvoso, one of the foremost authorities on the subject of reaching entire cities for God. His book That None Should Perish is a classic on prayer evangelism. He tells in his book how as a 13-year-old boy, he would ride his bicycle to the western shore of the Parana River, and for a precious hour he would meet with the Lord and pray for his skeptical city of 100,000 souls. But it seemed as though no one was interested in becoming a Christian
Some 35 years later, Ed's heart still longed for a breakthrough in his home city. The pastors in the city had been in disunity, and strife had been rampant. San Nicholas was a tough place to try to pastor a church.
In the fall of 1994, as I was reading Ed's book, the Lord spoke to me, "Cindy, I want you to go to San Nicholas. I'm going to answer the prayers Ed prayed when he was a 13-year-old boy. In addition, my people are crying out to me and San Nicholas is a very special city." [Emphasis added]
As I traveled to the city with Dan and Elaine Jue, missionaries with Harvest Evangelism, they shared with me how San Nicholas was known as "the graveyard of evangelists." That was certainty a faith-building bit of information! But upon our arrival, I discovered some good news. The intercessors and some of the pastors had been on a 40-day Daniel fast (i.e., vegetables and water), and it was to end the second day of the meetings. (I was only there for a two-day seminar, co-teaching with Ed Delph.)
We met for the first session at the Harvest Evangelism campground outside the city. It was so packed that people were standing outside looking into the windows! I felt led to share about the redemptive purpose God had in mind for the city of San Nicholas. By redemptive purpose, I mean the reason God created the city; and His plans and destiny in the Kingdom for it.
The name Nicholas comes from the Greek word nikao and means overcomer or victor. The word nikao is used in two significant places in Scripture related to prophetic warfare. First in Luke 11:22, Jesus Himself talked about overcoming the strongman. The second reference is found in Revelation 2 and 3 and is addressed to the churches in the cities concerning their need to overcome. A particularly powerful promise was given in Revelation 2:26 to the church in Thyatira, "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations" (italics added).
I believe it is no mistake that the name Nicholas was given to this city in Argentina. From the looks of things, however, the city was not experiencing the victory God meant for it. Why was this? The pastors were working as hard as they could and loved the Lord.
As the local leaders studied the city, one major thing was apparent. A stronghold of the Queen of Heaven was present in the city. This demonic spirit that counterfeits as Mary had appeared there and told the locals she wanted a grand cathedral built. People came from all over the world to worship her there. Many of the walls of the city were painted with pictures of her, declaring it to be her city.
As I read the Scripture from Jeremiah 7:16-19 to the meeting, about how the worship of the Queen of Heaven brings God's wrath upon a city, it was very quiet. I was thinking how similar their situation was to the city of Rosario, which I wrote about in the chapter dealing with strongholds in the book Breaking Strongholds in Your City. Rosario had also been given to the Queen of Heaven. Explaining that the Queen of Heaven was not the Virgin Mary and that Mary would be very unhappy to be given the title of a demonic power brought great understanding to the local leaders.[Empasis added]
That night the church, held in a theater, was packed. The pastors came prepared by the Holy Spirit. This is how I led the meeting:
I taught on God's purpose for the city.
We looked at the stronghold of the Queen of Heaven. It seems wherever we have found this kind of idolatrous worship, the city's economy has dropped dramatically. This had happened in San Nicholas. It used to have a big factory that brought large amounts of revenue. After the appearance of the Queen, poverty hit the city; the factory closed down and many were out of work. This directly correlates to Deuteronomy 28 that lists the curses that come from idolatry. [Emphasis added]
It is irresponsible to take people into spiritual battle without—as much as possible—making sure the "holes in their armor" are closed. Such "holes" are openings where Satan has legal right to hit them because of sin issues such as unforgiveness, relational problems between churches and so on. We had taken care of these issues earlier in the day by taking time for repentance. During this time, the pastors had knelt down and wept because of their strife and division. I'll never forget one pastor who prayed, "Perhaps this is why the fire has gone out in my heart, It is because I have spoken against my brothers."
Another area we covered was personal generational sin. Repentance was needed for those who had participated in the worship of idols or their ancestors. We had to shut the door to anything Satan would try to do to "backlash" against them after we prayed. This was a major spiritual battle and I had the fear of the Lord upon my life as I led them into war.[Emphasis added]
That day, the leaders repented of various kinds of generational sin: sins of witchcraft, consulting occultic healers, reading the astrological forecasts, participation in secret societies such as freemasonry, the worship of the Queen of Heaven and other idols. I then prayed that God would break the curses of poverty, insanity, infirmity and others that come with such worship. (Again refer to Deut. 28.)
The last step was to ask the pastors to come forward to repent for the sin of the worship of the Queen of Heaven in their city. Many came to the platform. I did not pray because it was not my place of authority to do so. [Emphasis added.] Those who live in the city are responsible for the sin. Also, the pastors and spiritual leaders are the "spiritual gatekeepers" for their city and they have great power in the Spirit to deal with the city's strongholds. The pastors knelt as did everyone else in the church. This kind of humility is important because it is part of the 2 Chronicles 7:14 pattern. A holy hush filled the room. Many began to weep as the pastors chose who would pray and represent them.
After the leaders of San Nicholas repented for idolatry and the worship of the Queen of Heaven, they stood to their feet and with loud voices of victory, entered into their redemptive destiny as overcomers! They proclaimed before the host of heaven, the demons in hell and those assembled that Jesus was Lord over San Nicholas. They pronounced that it was God's city and that it did not belong to the Queen of Heaven. To use Neil Anderson's terminology, they renounced the hold of the Queen of Heaven and announced the Lordship of Jesus Christ over the city! [Emphasis added] They took away the keys and legal right the prince of darkness had used to lock up their city spiritually. Chills ran down my back that night as these repentant people stood up in the power and authority given them through the King of kings.
As I looked around the church, my spirit discerned myriads of angels with bright swords warring over the city. Hosts and hosts of mighty warring angels fought back the dark angels surrounding the strongman until at last he left in defeat.[Empasis added]
At the end of the service, the Holy Spirit gave me a prophetic word that a businessman attending the meeting was going to start putting signs all over the city stating, "San Nicholas, where Jesus is Lord!" I exhorted the people to paint the outer walls of their homes with this declaration, thus welcoming the King into their city. Later, a young leader came to me and said he felt he was the one who would lead the campaign to fill the city with signs declaring the lordship of Christ. Already, I could tell the anointing of the overcomer was filling his heart.
After the service, some of the leaders asked me, "Cindy, how will we know that the power of this demonic strongman is broken?"
I answered, "People will not worship her here anymore. She will leave." [Emphasis added]
Exactly one week later; on November 25, 1994, the headline of the San Nicholas newspaper read, "The Virgin has moved to Tucum'an." Tucum'an is about 600 miles away from San Nicholas. Evidently, it was said she appeared in the freezer of a poor peasant. One of the Harvest missionaries, Dan Jue, put it this way in his report:
The demon behind the virgin found things so hot in San Nicholas that it literally went into a deep freeze. The spiritual significance is that the demonic stronghold in San Nicholas has been battered down! The grip of the forces of darkness has been broken! This is really a new day for this area! Gloria a Dios! The city is in the process of being transformed from the city of Maria (Queen of Heaven) to the city of Jesus Christ. [Emphasis added] You may find it strange that a Baptist should wax so mystically over what has occurred in the past few weeks in San Nicholas. But I have no other explanation except that God has done something supernatural in this area. Hallelujah to the King of kings!
That same month, the pastors of San Nicholas got together. Usually, only about three pastors would come and conduct a sort of business meeting. This time it was different. Twenty-one pastors came and they prayed for each other and blessed the work of God in each other's churches. Pastors who had been bitter enemies were hugging and praying for reconciliation.
Remember Luke 11:22? The stronger (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame the strongman, took from him all the armor in which he trusted, and divided his spoils! The city of San Nicholas is fulfilling its destiny and becoming a city of God.
Reference: The Voice of God by Cindy Jacobs
Finally, one must also consider the tendency of some Pentecostalists to discount Marian apparitions as UFO encounters. See the Wikipedia entry, The Fatima UFO Hypothesis
Scripture is very clear about the demonic attack on the Queen of Heaven in the End Times:
Revelation 12 (New International Version)
Revelation 12
The Woman and the Dragon
1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Clearly, there is a demonic attack against the Queen of Heaven. One must discern whether the recent manifestations of this attack within the Pentecostal movement are attributable to a Hindu Kundalini spirit unleashed at the Toronto Blessing which has subsequently infested much of the worldwide Pentecostal leadership and rank-and-file members.
I have Sky Angel which has all Christian types. A big abuser of this is half of the channels. The other half I can deal with part Catholic, Charismatic and Well balanced Reform types(R. C. Sproul).
Pray to Who Jesus prayed to. Very simple - no need for definitions - HE gave us all we need to know in His Word.
‘But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it’.
Who knows, maybe the rest used a dictionary to find out what is prayer and who to pray to.
I have a LOT of respect for David Wilkerson.
Amen.
I was not AT any of those venues.
It’s easy to throw rocks from a distance or at a video.
Lots of things are not as they appear. Some are.
I like to give folks grace until it is brazenly clear that God has cut their cord. He’s the only one who can see their hearts.
As to demonization . . . we all probably need some level of deliverance from some level of demonic attack most of the time.
I like Andrew Strom. I don’t agree with everything he says all the time.
I don’t agree with everything a Baptist/ AoG/ NonDenom . . . whatever pastor says all the time.
It’s been amusing that many RC’s don’t agree with everything the Pope says all the time . . . yet still seem to rant on AS THOUGH he were durn near infallible most of the time.
Life is messy. People are messy.
RELIGION IS SURE messy.
God will clean us and everything else up in His time.
How long have you had this fantasy that I was interested in debating you?
But keeping in mind John 13:35 it was interesting to see the potshots you and Quix were taking at each other.
I think the church needs a large dose of Romans 14: we should pray for one another and determine not to put a stumbling block in one another's way.
Cheers!
Have you read the Cross and the Switchblade?
Thanks thanks.
Wow! Thats not such bad answer. Some real wisdom in what you said. Yeah! Life throws some weird curve balls! 10-4
Praise God.
Thanks for your kind reply.
Yes! Years ago.
I forgot about it until I read your post about Pastor David Wilkerson.
What a testimony he has - the NYC gangs, etc.
Wowzer. Just working my way through the above. This is certainly an eye-opener, I had no idea about this insanity. Will read more now. I’m almost speechless.
I do not recall ever having debated with you, and it makes a difference in how I interpret and respond to your posts.
Well what question are you asking me? Do I consider myself a Christian? Yes I do. Will you consider me a Christian? That you would even presume the authority to make such an evaluation should astonish me, but it is all too common.
I am not interested in your judgement of my Chrisitanity - nor anyone's for that matter. And personally, I don't believe Jesus is pleased with everyone running around judging each other, either, But that's just me. I understand that for many people, there's not much point in being a Christian if you can't judge other people.
But I will tell you that what you call yourself makes no difference to how I interpret and respond to your posts, and I think that's a pretty major difference between us right there - I don't presume any judgement authority over your spiritual path.
As for Quix, he obviously does not believe in the validity of the Marian phenomenon, while I do. So what? We agree on some things, disagree on others. Oh BTW, I'm not a Catholic, either.
So what am I? How do I answer religious "experts"? Jesus said this:
One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
- Matthew 22:35-40
That's what I am. is it good enough for you? What chrch does it belong to? Catholic? Christian? Pentecostalist? Which one - tell me, because I don't want to screw up and go to hell and burn forever. So which church does this passage belong to?
Oh, and is it NOT a part of Hinduism? Or Buddhism? Or Taoism? Tell me how these religions don't include these MOST IMPORTANT commandments.
I know, simplistic. But I guess I am too - and I'm glad Jesus had mercy upon people as simple as me, by giving us a teaching we can comprehend and live. I know ya'll think I'm deficient, but over the years, I've learned to live with your disapointment in me.
grey_whiskers wrote: Swami Muktananda's teaching can be summarized in two quotations:
* Honor your Self, Worship your Self, Meditate on your Self, God dwells within you as you.
* See God in Each Other.
Called third strike. This is NOT what the Holy Spirit calls Christians to.
"Called third strike?" Maybe the strike is in the mind of the caller. Because when I read these teaching from Muktananda, I hear:
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." - John 15: 9-12
Like I said, I don't measure up to the kinds of logic chopping which you all are worried is going to land me in hell. So I'm glad Jesus - and Muktananda - put it in simple enough words so that even I can understand.
Oh, and grey_whiskers? I disagree with the Hindus on a lot of things too, so if you and G.K. want to continue to hold court over the validity of that five thousand year old franchise, that's okay by me. But a word of advice - take it easy on mixing the first and third chakra stuff with your sixth chakra. If you get too hooked on the rush, when the Kundalini hits them you're going to find it hard going. For myself, I'll just own my own opinions about things. Unlike you, who speak for the Church - right? I mean, it's not like you're just speaking your opinion. You're authorized to teach - right? And because of that, you're not personally responsible for your positions, because you're... well, you're... absolved... of things like that. Right?
And here's a final thought: I and people like me, sit back and watch millions of Catholics and Protestants going at it, all certain each other is going to hell, and that's when you already acknowledge that the other is a Christian. Yet none of you - none of you - see your bickering as any reason why someone else should perhaps not be so worried about getting your religious approval. At the very least, one would think a tad bit of humility would work it's way in. But I have yet to see any over many years, and so I have no belief it will occur here now. Nevertheless, I thought you might be interested in how an "ousider" sees your "authority."
Well, that's all for me tonight. May the Holy Spirit watch over all of you and keep you safe from both demons and non-religion-affiliated spiritual people with personal opinions.
He is a great witness. I admire him. He even confessed a pornography addiction on the pulpit when nobody else knew. He asked for forgiveness. I believe an honest man.
I didn’t know that about the porn.
I get a monthly newsletter from his ministry - called Pulpit Series. All great teachings of his.
He was truly led by the Spirit when he left his wife/children to go to NYC to ‘help’ the gangs. Who does that today?
Nicky Cruz, a gang leader turned his life around (back then) and is now a pastor because of David.
http://nickycruz.org/about/nicky_story/
Yes I remember. That was 50 years ago. He is now in his seventies. Bless-em!
First of all, let me admit I have not read every bit of the thread, although a fair amount, nor have I watched the videos. I’ll have to make some time tomorrow.
But I do know a bit about Swami Muktananda. He was an impersonalist (monist) who acted as guru - guru means holy teacher - but fell into illicit sex with some of his (very) young female disciples. A huge freaking NO NO and those actions alone totally disqualified him. Absolutely. A guru who uses his disciples sexually is a fraud, a cheat, a liar, and not any less than a father who sexually uses his children.
Secondly, anything he taught must be seen through the light of his iniquity. A guru is considered like a spiritual father (or mother, as the case may be) to his disciples, and anyone who experiences sexual urges at all (other than legitimate sexual intercourse open to conception, with a legally wedded wife, or husband, as the case may be), what to speak of acting on them, is by that fact disqualified from guiding anyone spiritually. Such acts are considered no different than incest.
The understanding of “guru” is this: someone who is fully surrendered to God, has no desire for anything in this world, no desire to use anyone, is humble, never - I repeat - never - charges any money for talks, audience, or anything - and in fact, there is a list of about 28 qualities a guru must have to be genuine. So Muktananda is crossed off the list.
So any pronouncements Swami [sic, “swami” is a title that means “one who is master of his senses and mind” which Muktananda obviously was NOT!] Muktananda made are utterly worthless and without any merit.
Additionally, his teachings are essentially this - there is no Person of Godhead, that no individuals actually exist, and that everyone is God. Which is of the Impersonal or monist school of Vedic teachings, and considered by Veda Vyasa (also known as Dvaipayana Vyasadeva) to be inferior or partial understanding of Godhead. Analogy: if you see someone standing in the sun, you may be blinded by the sunlight and not see the person. So those who think there is no Personal Godhead are blinded by His light.
I’d have to know more about this goddess to know who he’s even talking about. The word “chit” means pure consciousness, and I am not familiar with a goddess of this name.
I can explain more about the status of demigods, but here it is in brief:
There are a large number of demigods and demigoddesses in Vedic cosmology. These beings live within the confines of this universe, which is created by the Supreme Godhead or Bhagavan, and has a beginning and an end. There exists the eternal realm or Para Vyoma (literally the supreme sky) or Vaikuntha (literally the realm without anxiety) where Godhead dwells eternally with countless liberated souls.
This universe (there are countless universes) exists for the redemption of rebellious souls. The demigods and goddesses are agents of the Supreme Godhead in the management of the universe, with (from our small vision) vast and great powers. But they are finite beings with powers delegated to them by God Himself, and they consider and know themselves to be His servants.
They are in essence souls* just like us, who have greater bodies and powers in which to serve God, just as we have greater bodies and powers compared to ants. So no demigod or goddess can possibly be considered to be the Holy Spirit. I am not entirely sure what Christians mean by Holy Spirit, perhaps this may serve:
One aspect of Godhead as manifest in the created universes is named Paramatma, which literally means “Supreme Soul”. He accompanies each soul throughout their sojourns, giving guidance from within the heart; which is heard or experienced variously depending on the level of envy or rebellion. The very envious souls will not hear His instructions from within, the fully surrendered soul will always hear His guidance and feel His presence.
I hope this is clear...
*Just to make the meaning of soul (in Sanskrit jivatma, or small individual soul or eternal self) more clear - each living being is eternally an individual spiritual spark or living self, and while existing in the created universes, must “wear” a physical body of earthly elements. These bodies range from the tiniest microbe up to human forms, up to the great demigods. All must face birth and death, even the demigods. But death of the body is not the end of the soul’s existence; as stated in the Bhagavad Gita, “for the soul there is neither birth nor death, nor having once been, does he ever cease to be”.
Just read much of the rest of the thread, at least comments.
Kundalini in the yoga sutras is not a person, it is an energy, a subtle energy. But in Vedic cosmology, there are persons associated with everything, as ultimately everything is personal. In the sense that, for instance, rain is a natural process involving water, heat of the sun, evaporation, wind patterns, and so on, but according to the Vedas, there are persons overseeing and in charge of all natural events and processes in the universe. It’s not “automatic” in the sense of a mindless machine.
Okay, back to Kundalini. This subtle energy can be brought up via very stringent yogic methods and techniques - I call it “technical yoga”. It is very, very difficult, generally requires many years of prolonged effort which include fasting, strict and absolute celibacy (except for that left handed tantra which is really black arts), abstenance from all flesh foods, intoxication, and strict isolation from “normal” worldly interactions. Primarily hatha yoga asanas, various bodily purification methods and very strong pranayam or breathing exercises as well as meditations using mantras are necessary for awakening the Kundalini energy.
The idea of mass gatherings of people being able to experience Kundalini energy is laughable. Just laughable.
Second, the Kundalini energy is not necessary for spiritual perfection, this is clear from the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads and the Puranas. It is a minor detail, and is actually often a side track, a dead end. Even when accomplished perfectly (which is extremely difficult and rarely achieved), this energy cannot grant spiritual perfection. The most it can grant is moksha, or the experience of God’s light, not His person in fullness.
Additionally, even such practitioners are warned that during the process of raising the Kundalini energy, many temptations and failures can arise, causing a person to imagine they are God, or a great demigod, or perfected being, when they obviously are not so. People who misuse, misunderstand or otherwise cannot handle this energy can go insane or become false gurus or teachers. Experiencing even a bit of this energy often engenders great pride, thus causing instant falldown into deep illusion. Without proper guidance or following strictly the traditional methods, there are other dangers as well, such as possession by asuric (demoniac) entities.
Trying to experience Kundalini energy is not the path of devotion to God, it is not even given much importance or stress in any of the Vedas, and the reason it is so “popular” now is it appeals to those who want to be thought or think of themselves as “spiritual” without having to have God be the Supreme Person.
I know this is quite difficult subject matter. To summarize:
1. Kundalini energy is real.
2. Experiencing the Kundalini energy can at best (which is very, very, rarely achieved because it is so difficult) give a glimpse or even more rarely immersion in the ocean of Light which is the Light emanating from the Godhead, but can never grant experience of God Himself.
For example, even among many thousands of such practitioners who seriously follow the methods, maybe one may experience even a glimpse of the spiritual light of God.
3. The path of seeking Kundalini energy is fraught with pitfalls and dangers, what to speak of failure.
4. It is not recommended in the Vedas and is a very minor and insignificant part of Vedic teachings.
5. For some reason, it has become very popular in the west, but most often very misunderstood and very rarely can even be seriously practiced.
One more final point - for a sincere and serious Kundalini yoga practitioner, once such a person actually experiences the Light of God, he will then seek the source of the Light, and become the humble servant of God, and leave the Kundalini practice behind.
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