The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? [Ecumenical]

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[Salvation]

The Catholic Church
Changed The Ten Commandments?

  

 

 

Real Audio Lessons on this Topic

Commandment 1
Commandments 2-3
Commandment 4, 6, & 9
Commandments 5, 7, 8, 10

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

Most common Protestant listing:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet

Latin Catholic listing:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads:

2	I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3	Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
4	Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5	Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6	And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7	Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8	Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9	Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10	But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11	For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12	Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13	Thou shalt not kill. 1
14	Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15	Thou shalt not steal.
16	Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17	Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this:   

	Verses Grouped Together
Counted as Commandment #	Jewish	Latin Catholic, Lutheran	Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant
1	2 (commandment to believe)	3, 4, 5, 6	3
2	3, 4, 5, 6	7	4, 5, 6
3	7	8, 9, 10, 11	7
4	8, 9, 10, 11	12	8, 9, 10, 11
5	12	13	12
6	13	14	13
7	14	15	14
8	15	16	15
9	16	17a (commandment against lust)	16
10	17	17b (commandment against greed)	17

When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:

• chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages
   

• the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration;
   

• the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;
   

• no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped;
   

• everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and
   

• we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.

Footnote:
¹ The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.

---

Further Reading

The Catechism of the Catholic Church: Section on the Ten Commandments

[Salvation]

This is an open thread for discussion of the Ten Commandments. Might need to be Ecumenical.......

[Salvation]

Sorry, everyone, I could not get this posted any other way.

[Salvation]

Catholic Discussion Ping!

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[Salvation]

Guess I might have been more accurate had I said:

I could not get this aligned any other way.

[Da_Shrimp]

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Nope. My people were never in bondage in Egypt.

Therefore, you're not my God, you're just the Hebrew Tribal God and nothing to do with me.

[battlecry]

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/97/97lmoses.phtml

Moses: And the Lord has sent before you, this Fifth Commandment - “Honor Thy Father
and Thy Mother”!

[ the prophets agree ]

And the Sixth Commandment: “Though Shalt not Kill”!

[ the prophets agree ]

And the Seventh: “Though Shalt not Commit Adultery”!

[ silence ]

What? What did I say?

Voice Among the Prophets: It’s a little unclear!

Moses: What?! Someone dares question the Word of God!

Clinton: [ steps out ] Not question, really. I mean.. you know, it’s just a little unclear. I mean, adultery
, what exactly does that mean? [ laughs, holds smug thumbs-up ]

Moses: Well, I think it’s pretty self-explanatory - Though shalt not know any Woman other than Thy Wife.

Clinton: Yeah, right.. look, Moses.. hear me out on this one, okay? Is it technically adultery, let’s say, if you just let a woman know you? No! Because you’re not really knowing her back!

Moses: I don’t follow.

Clinton: Aw, c’mon, Moses! You know what I mean - maybe she.. knows you.. some.. other way! Like, not with her loins, you knowww..? She could even be fully dressed..

Moses: [ appalled ] Oh, come on. You’re not asking what I think you’re asking, are you?

Clinton: What?! You gotta admit, it’s not really that clear, right people? [ the people agree ]

Moses: Oh, yes, it is clear! What you’re talking about is definitely adultery!

Clinton: [ sighing ] So, God told you to do that exactly?

Moses: Well, no, we didn’t talk about that..

Clinton: Yeah? Well, then how do you know? This is pretty damn important, maybe you should go ask Him.

Moses: I’m not going to ask God that.

Clinton: Fine. I’ll ask Him. [ Moses tries to stop him, but he walks behind the mountain. He returns almost as soon as he left. ] I asked Him, He said it was okay.

Moses: No, you didn’t! You did not just talk to God!

Clinton: I did, too! You know, I asked Him about doing the thing, you know, down there, and He said, “Hey, go to town!” He said just don’t let anyone else know about it. You can put that one right there. [ he points at the tablet ]

Moses: Okay, you talked to God? Then what does God look like?

Clinton: Well.. I mean, He’s big.. uh, He is shiny, and He wears a hat.

Moses: No! God does not wear a hat. Look, the commandment is simple - Though shalt not lie down with any other woman!

Clinton: See? That’s my point! What if you’re not lying down? What if you’re sitting at the edge of your desk?

Moses: Come on, that’s just semantics. Who brought this guy? [ no one claims Clinton ] Look, look.. any kind of knowing is adultery, and that’s that! Now, I’m moving on! [ he presents the tablets again ] Now, then. Though shalt not covet Thy neighbor’s house, nor his goods, nor Thy neighbor’s ass..

Clinton: Wait a minute, Thy neighbor’s ass. What if..

Moses: No! No, no, no.. I know what you’re going to ask, and yes, that is defintely adultery.

Clinton: Okay, but what if she knew you with her hand?

Moses: That’s it. You are not worthy to receive these commandments! [ he throws the tablets to the ground, destroying them. Thunder strikes ] You perverts! [ he exits behind mountain ]

[ Prophet picks up the broken pieces. Clinton examines them. ]

Clinton Wait, whoa whoa! Did he break the one that had adultery on it?

Prophet: Yeah, I think he did.

Clinton: Okay, good! [ examining the pieces more closely ] Okay, see, look? This is great, we have five commandments. That’s all we need! You understand, we got all the good ones. Am I right? [ he turns to address the crowd ] Now, I want to talk about building a bridge to the 12th Century..

SNL Transcripts

[Mr. Lucky]

What a thoughtful post. You must be very proud of yourself.

[TSgt]

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

Nope, no worship here...

[sayuncledave]

Thanks, Salvation. It’s always nice to see items from fisheaters here, and it’s a great article.

[longtermmemmory]

I file those under “who touched my robes?”

images remind up of what they represent.

[Salvation]

Praying -- asking the Blessed Virgin Mary or a saint to intercede is not a sin.

I'm finished debating about making this an Ecumenical thread -- I think your post can stay, but I will ask that the title now include [Ecumenical]

Please follow the Religion Moderator's Guidelines for Ecumenical Threads

[Da_Shrimp]

Not particularly.

Every time I read Exodus, it seems clear to me that Yahwah is simply the God of the Hebrews. I am not Hebrew, therefore Yahwah is not my God. It's an easy enough concept.

[Salvation]

LOL!

[Salvation]

Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 10 Commandments
The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? [Ecumenical]

The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Christian Morality
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, The Ten Commandments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, First Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Second Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Third Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Fourth Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Fifth Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Sixth and Ninth Commandments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Seventh and Tenth Commandments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith; Part Three: The Will of God, Eighth Commandment

Catechism of Aquinas |SUMMARY OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS| THE OUR FATHER & FIVE QUALITIES OF PRAYER
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 34: The First Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 35: The Second Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 36: The Third Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 37: The Fourth Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 38: The Fifth Commandment (w / special prayer request)
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 39: The Sixth and Ninth Commandments
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 40: The Seventh and Tenth Commandments
A Brief Catechism for Adulst - Lesson 41: The Eighth Commandment

[Pyro7480]

You read Exodus without reading Genesis?

[Mr. Lucky]

So, you figure the God of Exodus isn't the God of Genesis.

Forgive me for not taking you all that seriously.

[small voice in the wilderness]

I don’t understand how this thread could be changed to an Ecumenical thread. The Title of the Thread suggests the Ten Commandments could have been changed, from one thing to another thing. Which should qualify it for an open thread. Those who think it has been changed, and those who do not think it has been changed. And support for both reasons.

[Uri’el-2012]

When did YHvH or Yah'shua change
the Sabbath from Shabbat to Sunday ?

Or was it changed in the fourth century
as part of the anti-semitism of Nicea ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[TSgt]

Agreed, rules for thee but not for me.

I’m of the opinion that all religion threads should be tagged (OPEN, ECUMENICAL, X CAUCUS, ETC).

[pnh102]

Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.

Interesting indeed. This position seems to have completely gone bass-ackwards in the USA, where it seems that most "Catholics" take the completely opposing view.