Magical Thinking and Why Facts Matter: Considering the Risks of Mormon Irrationality ...

Post-Mormon Scrapbook ^

[Elsie]

 

MT #2

 

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

 

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

  1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

  4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

  5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

  16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

  21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

  24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

  26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

  34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

 

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[Elsie]

 

MT #3

 

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A FACSIMILE FROM
THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
No. 1

EXPLANATION

Fig. 1. The Angel of the Lord.

Fig. 2. Abraham fastened upon an altar.

Fig. 3. The idolatrous priest of Elkenah attempting to offer up Abraham as a sacrifice.

Fig. 4. The altar for sacrifice by the idolatrous priests, standing before the gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh.

Fig. 5. The idolatrous god of Elkenah.

Fig. 6. The idolatrous god of Libnah.

Fig. 7. The idolatrous god of Mahmackrah.

Fig. 8. The idolatrous god of Korash.

Fig. 9. The idolatrous god of Pharaoh.

Fig. 10. Abraham in Egypt.

Fig. 11. Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians.

Fig. 12. Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

It is the kind of thinking rampant in Mormon culture, wherein otherwise intelligent and often well educated people are willing to proclaim simultaneous believe in diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive concepts such as creation and evolution.

Norm, you may want to jump in here; as it looks to be right up your alley.

[Elsie]

I sure hope that it HASN'T 'come to pass' that your EYES have glazed over!

[Tennessee Nana]

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied: "... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression

_______________________________________________

OK So what was Joey Smiths "transgression ???

[Elsie]

Joseph Smith was ahead of the times!!

 

 

 

 

Spirit / Automatic Writing

Automatic or spirit writing is the practice of writing while channeling messages from the spirit realm.  Those on the Other Side are sometimes strong enough to "push" textual messages across the veil and those who are able to relax enough to take up the pen in a spirit writing session will have interesting messages come through.  

Automatic writing sessions will often leave the psychic exhausted.  It takes great effort to remain still while spirit energies literally take over strongly enough to send messages through the brain of the channel.

It may have its down side, but spirit writing can yield some of the finest works and bodies of information.  It allows for great detail if desired and so long as the psychic can keep the same momentum as the spirits, the message system will be successful.

To try automatic writing, sit in a quiet place, with a large pad of paper in front of you and a pencil or pen in your hand.  Relax completely and breathe, letting stress drift away.  Try not to focus on anything in particular.  Let your thoughts drift until they are indeed random.  Begin writing if the urge strikes you.  Many beginners feel the spirit pull as an urge to put pen to paper.  You can begin by doing circles (a spiral) along your page.  At times this can develop into words and messages.

This practice can bring out messages and information that otherwise may not get channeled, but caution is always wise when dealing with the other side and energy that isn't familiar to you.

 

 

 

(From --->  http://www.psychicpen.com/spirit_writing.html  )

[Paragon Defender]

Undecided readers,

As an ex-Mormon basher, I invite everyone to read all of the multitude of Anti-Mormon attack threads on this board and then do some research on your own from more than one side of the “issues”.

Well written propaganda is still propaganda. Some, like the starter of this thread, are better written than others.

Is what all these Mormon attack squad people parrot day in and and day out on these boards true? Don’t take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Put forth some effort. You do want the truth right? Prove it.

Read both sides! Talk to both sides! Not just mine. Not just theirs. Make up your own mind.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. The vast majority of the issues brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ I have found but here’s more.

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

[Tennessee Nana]

but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used." (Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses," ___________________________________________

But if he never looked at the "plates" how did Edward Steveson know this to be true ??? How did he know what language was on the "plates" How did he know what language was being used on the "platees" and in the hat ??? Nobody ever saw them I thought the language on the "playtes" and the language in the hat and on the paper were suppose to be different, "translated" ??? Now instead of English, one word at a time "and" "it" "came" "to" "pass" Joey Smithj saw "reformed Egyptian" ??? Then why didnt he just read it out as "reformed Egyptian" ??? He was SOOOOOOOOOO smart... A translator would know both languages well.. Joey Smith barely knew English let alone a language that was never in existance..

[magritte]

His transgression:

"he (Smith) had allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon"

You might as well cut&paste the rest of the interview. The answer is in the next sentence...magritte

[Tennessee Nana]

but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used." (Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses," ___________________________________________

But if he never looked at the "plates" how did Edward Steveson know this to be true ???

How did he know what language was on the "plates"

How did he know what language was being used on the "platees" and in the hat ???

Nobody ever saw them

I thought the language on the "playtes" and the language in the hat and on the paper were suppose to be different, "translated" ???

Now instead of English, one word at a time "and" "it" "came" "to" "pass" Joey Smithj saw "reformed Egyptian" ???

Then why didnt he just read it out as "reformed Egyptian" ???

He was SOOOOOOOOOO smart...

A translator would know both languages well..

Joey Smith barely knew English let alone a language that was never in existance..

[Normandy]

Hi Elsie,

Thanks for the ping.

No man or woman can fully understand the ways of God. I certainly don’t and won’t claim to.

However, God can communicate with us and teach us certain things on a level we can understand - just as a parent teaches a little child.

My faith in God, in Jesus Christ and in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is based on what I have personally experienced.

I have heard all the objections to my faith and seen all the passionate opposition which is fired in a seemingly never ending stream against Mormonism — yet I am content and satisfied in my faith —

Because I know for myself — from personal experience — that it is true.

[Tennessee Nana]

Oh OK

“... he used a stone called a “Seers stone,” the “Interpreters” having been taken away from him because of transgression. The “Interpreters” were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a “Seers stone” which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English.”

But we know what really happened...

[expatguy]

Morons are irrational ... so whats the point?

[Tennessee Nana]

You might as well cut&paste the rest of the interview. The answer is in the next sentence...magritte
___________________________________________

Heres an answer in another paragraph

Whats interesting about this one is its the only one that is a signed affidavit...

“The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods.”
-—Isaac Hale (Emma Smith’s father’s) affidavit, 1834.

[svcw]

As an example:

From promormon.blogspot.com:

It is true that Mormons have another Jesus. We have Jesus the Son of God, the Biblical Jesus.

From the lds prophet Hinckley:

“President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

Thanks PD for the links.

[Elsie]

Well written propaganda is still propaganda.

So is POORLY written stuff!

http://www.fairlds.org/

(Be SURE to check out the DISCLAIMER...)

FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.

[Elsie]

"he (Smith) had allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon"

ALLOWED?

For what REASON?

[Elsie]

Because I know for myself — from personal experience — that it is true.

What EXPERIENCES did you have that CONFIRMED the BELIEF that you have?

[Elsie]

“The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods.”

-—Isaac Hale (Emma Smith’s father’s) affidavit, 1834.

DON'T listen to HIM!!

Emma's dad never DID like me and he's LYING now!!!"

--News_From_The_Grave(Joseph Smith)

[SZonian]

Did you even read the article before you posted this worthless and vacuous tripe of yours?

It was written by a mormon.

So, to all you who may have read PD’s cut and paste post, it’s mormon “propaganda” because PD doesn’t agree with the premise of the writer.

I note yet again, PD has yet to address any of the content or any of the material posted.

I’ll let you all decide for yourselves how a TBM has decided to warn his fellow mormons about the dangers of believing the fanciful and magical claims of mormonism.

As a recovering ex-mormon, all I did was relate my thoughts on the matter and concur with what the writer is going through.

That’s some “propaganda”.

Oh, and the links provided by PD, the material is controlled by apologists and the LdS church.

So if you’re looking for unbiased opinions or materials, I’m sure you’ll find it there. /s