Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: NYer

RE: the 1988 C-14 testing that dates The Shroud to a medieval origin.

Those who claim that the 1988 tests were compromised by bungled “patch-sampling” seem forced to admit that, if the tests results are wrong, and The Shroud is authentic, then it’s held by the technically and scientifically incompetent and isn’t completely safe in their keeping. Third possibility- it’s held by malefactors who know it’s a hoax and intentionally mis-sampled for the 1988 test to keep the controversy alive as long as possible. If this third way turns out to be the truth, then The Shroud still isn’t safe where it currently abides.

So either The Shroud is C-14 medieval, or or authentic and held by nincompoops who couldn’t tell a patch in the cloth from a hole in the ground, or it’s the Turin Cathedral’s hoax and we’re being played for fools. Would that the the rich, hoary, decrepit men-on-robes club that holds the shroud was willing to double down and carefully retest the carbon.


12 posted on 05/08/2010 7:38:53 AM PDT by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: flowerplough
oops. men-in-robes club
13 posted on 05/08/2010 7:40:57 AM PDT by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]

To: flowerplough; Swordmaker
So either The Shroud is C-14 medieval, or or authentic and held by nincompoops who couldn’t tell a patch in the cloth from a hole in the ground, or it’s the Turin Cathedral’s hoax and we’re being played for fools. Would that the the rich, hoary, decrepit men-on-robes club that holds the shroud was willing to double down and carefully retest the carbon.

You forgot the other possibilities:
1. You have so little familiarity with the technical issues involved (especially the techniques of patching) that you're able to come up with what appear to be, but aren't, mutually exclusive explanations that lead inevitably to your desired conclusion.

2. You are familiar enough with them but don't want to let something minor like the truth get in the way of your prejudices ("the rich, hoary, decrepit men-on-robes club") and detract from your desired conclusion.

14 posted on 05/08/2010 7:52:50 AM PDT by aruanan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]

To: flowerplough
Um, the C-14 carbon dating was debunked by the very researchers who conducted the tests. And one of them was an atheist. It seems that some well-meaning nuns in the 13th century or so, rewove parts of the Shroud after it was damaged in a fire and the sample was taken from a patch that was rewoven. When they looked at the remaining pieces under a microscope and started unraveling the material, the spliced pieces fell apart.

What no one seems to ever bring up is that there has been, for far longer than the middle ages, references to a cloth, in some cases called the "Mandylion" with an image of Christ. Tradition tells us that this is the same one and documents refer to the Knights Templar having kept it for a time. The provenance goes back much farther than the carbon dating. And then the chief carbon dater came to the conclusion that the dating was erroneous.

I'm sticking with the "rich, hoary, decrepit men-on-robes club" (who, incidentally, took a vow of poverty. Material Church "wealth" is in assets held in trust for the inspiration of the faithful) on this one.

15 posted on 05/08/2010 7:59:09 AM PDT by Desdemona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]

To: flowerplough

The best case for its authenticity is, if they could make one just like it, they surely wood. The fact that they haven’t speaks volumes.


45 posted on 05/09/2010 4:13:55 PM PDT by itsahoot (Each generation takes to excess, what the previous generation accepted in moderation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]

To: flowerplough

There are plenty of websites which post information about the Shroud for anyone to see. Here is a link to many shroud centers:

http://www.shroud.com/centers.htm

There is another dating method available now that is better than Carbon 14, and is nondestructive. I think it has a very original name, like “nondestructive carbon dating testing”, here is a link:

http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=222&content_id=CNBP_024370&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=

If you read the article, I’m not that sure custodians of priceless artifacts would be very happy about the following description of the process:
“In the new method, scientists place an entire artifact in a special chamber with a plasma, an electrically charged gas similar to gases used in big-screen plasma television displays. The gas slowly and gently oxidizes the surface of the object to produce carbon dioxide for C-14 analysis without damaging the surface, he said.”

The question would be asked, how to undo the oxidation once the test is complete? In the case of the Shroud, does one average the CO_2 coming off the cloth between the original portions of the cloth and the patches?


58 posted on 05/12/2010 10:53:49 AM PDT by blackpacific
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson